Adjustments

Bryando

Hi,

I am pretty desperate so any help would be great.

I have a mental illness and work full time on a zero hour contract. The pattern goes 52 hours next 66 repeats. 10 hours between shifts. Do security, therefore, the protection of 11 hours does not apply.

They send a month rota I confirm.

I have asked three times for at least 14 hours between shifts as an adjustment owning to I require rest and my medication. Take antipsychotic medication. 1 hour and 30 mins each way. So that is 7 hours to sleep, eat, shower and get back out the door.

They ignore my contact re the adjustment. I used the equality website for a letter template and sent that by email. Still nothing. Yet they will respond to any other email.

Recently was sectioned and they think the hours are not helping me. I feel like killing myself so they detained me. Even have thoughts at work. Feel trapped .

I am scared of losing my job. Partner laid off so rely on my income. Too much to claim housing benefit so my wage covers the lot.

Somebody told me to just accept shifts I want when they send my monthly rota. BUT I am scared they bin me due to that. So I am trapped.

What do I do here?

I am in doubt if this is a zero hour contract based on going over the contract itself.
CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT FOR THE EMPLOYEE IS THE HEADING.

Everything says employee: My contract says this under hours of work:

Your contracted hours of work are 0 to an average 48 hours for each 7 days. You must give 1 months notice in writing to terminate this section of the agreement.


You hereby agree that as a condition of your employment you will work your assigned shifts during the Christmas period from the 13th December to the 1oth Jan each year.

Under holidays is saying, full-time employees........ The contract is a mess as contains passages the govt banned such as I can't work elsewhere .

EVERY reference in the contract is an employee, not a worker eg. An employee may be dismissed for......

sangie595

I can't see the whole contract, so it is difficult to be certain, but I am not even sure that this is a zero hours contract. It reads more like a variable hours contract in terms of the bits you have posted. There are many more variables in contacts than zero or "not zero" hours.

However, I suspect that the issue here has nothing to do with the type of contract. The issue here is "what is reasonable?". I'm certainly sorry for your circumstances. If you could have a perfect storm of the kind of stresses that you don't need, you would have them. But, and I suspect you already know this, you have nothing to go on here. That is why your employer is not responding - they are not legally in the wrong.

Your three hours commute each day is not their problem. Those three hours are "your time". You cannot deduct the commute and then figure that you are only getting 7 hours between shifts. And whilst I don't know this, I suspect that your employers argument is going to be that they cannot reasonably arrange for one person to have 14 hours between each and every shift, because that would have knock on effects on the entire security coverage. I could envisage such an argument would be a powerful one - in order to maintain their security coverage it would mean others having spilt shifts, or excessive hours, to cover for your extra four hours between every shift; to say nothing of the fact that that would mean that your shifts would be continuously challenging to fit in because they would never align with anyone else's.

To be honest, I think this is a "rock and a hard place" circumstance. I fully understand why you need what you do. But I also understand that this may be impossible to give you. You have no entitlement to adjustments - they are always subject to the test of reasonableness. So even if they consider this zero hours, and even if it isn't, that is all a red herring - you have the same rights to adjustments either way, but the practicality of what you are asking for may very well make it unreasonable as an ask. And either way, I suspect you are right - any way you cut this, you and the job end up parting ways. I'm afraid that I don't see a good outcome here - only a choice as to which you want to pick.

If you are insistent that you want the hours changing, then you must submit a formal grievance and ask for the reasonable adjustments that they have so far not made. Be aware that that could be something that easily gets out of hand. They can say no, for the reasons I've suggested. But it could also raise questions about your suitability for the employment - if the job puts toy as a risk to yourself or others, and that is what your own medical people have said, then that is good grounds for the employer to terminate your contract.

Or you could refuse some shifts, as has already been suggested to you, obviously with the risk that they will stop offering you shifts or terminate the contract. Or you can do nothing, work the shifts, and risk your mental health.

I am not seeing a clear way to a scenario where you get what you want, or where any court would see your claim as reasonable. Of course, this is based on a lot of assumptions about how your employer would react - but you are assuming already that it won't be positive, so I'm working on the basis that you know your employer well enough to judge that. If they were going to do it, they would have by now. And if they want to find reasons not to do it, there are a lot of potential arguments that would legally hold water.

That may leave you with few choices until/ unless you find another job that better suits your needs or is closer to home. Sorry, but based on what you have said here, I think it's do the job, or resign on medical grounds since that is what your medical professionals are saying. Otherwise, you really need to see a lawyer too look at the detail, but I suspect they would share the view that a claim on this would be shaky. There is no right to what you want, and the intricacies of giving it to you may well defend the employers position and leave you without employment anyway.

ohreally

You state the time pressures placed by your job are unacceptable yet you're looking at additional work only a few weeks back...http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=72207887&postcount=1

sangie595

ohreally wrote: »

You state the time pressures placed by your job are unacceptable yet you're looking at additional work only a few weeks back...http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=72207887&postcount=1

Ah. Yes. The posting history totally changes my opinion!

Sorry OP, but I did not realise, and you must have known - you have been in this job for the grand total of two months! Some days of which, earlier this month, after what - 6 weeks working - you were unavailable for work as you were in hospital. And over the past several weeks you have been looking for a second job (is that why you want more time between shifts, so you can work somewhere else?); and in another post mention that you can't imagine only working for one employer at the same time.

Sorry but if the patterns of work here are such that they cause a mental break down in six weeks, then you are not fit to do this job. For your own sake, and for the employers, you shouldn't be in this job. And if that isn't the case, and you can cope with the hours (And would like even more, working somewhere else) then stop asking for your hours to be changed, because you will end up dismissed - and don't even think of discrimination claims. Eight weeks into a job is not the time to start telling an employer that you would like their business to revolve around you!

And in no way does a few weeks employment result in hospitalization. There had to be more to it than that. So, did you declare your medical history when you applied for the job? Did you tell them you wouldn't be able to cope with the hours of work? Did you mention a history of mental illness? Because the time you should have been mentioning ask this, and asking if the shifts can be managed around your pre-order existing condition, was when you interviewed for the job, and not a couple of weeks later. Both you, and the employer, deserved an opportunity to decide whether this was the right employment for someone with your medical history. And that is not about saying that people with mental health conditions should not work - that is about being realistic and acknowledging that with certain physical or mental limitations, there are jobs that, with the best will in the world, are simply not suitable. Choosing a job that has significant shift demands and is located an hour an a half from home was most unwise of you. And what on earth are you thinking of wanting another job on top of that?

I am extremely concerned that you are not taking enough care of yourself. This is something far more than what is, or is not, a reasonable adjustment. It is about you protecting yourself and gaining more resilience in a working environment that you can manage. And not choosing courses that are the employment equivalent of self-harming. In your condition, choosing this form of employment was bound to have poor outcomes - and then you would like to pour more fuel on the fire by getting an extra job?

Please think about what your are doing to yourself. Start looking for a job that you can manage. One job. With time for yourself. If that means you will be poorer, then accept that. There are worse things than being short of money - being sorry of money and in a hospital, for example. Or permanently unable to work because of what you have done to yourself. Look at playing the long game. Find a job that you may be able to progress in - even shelf filling at the local supermarket had better prospects than where your are now. Get a job, work hard at it, maybe do some overtime but ensure you save time for your life. Show willing to do training. Let management see you at your best. And then apply to move up the ladder. I'm sure your wife would prefer to have you - time for family, happy, and healthy - than some extra money to pay the bills. You can reduce outgoings, even if it's hard. You can't get your health or the years back, once they are gone.

IAmWales

Is this the job you refused to declare your condition? If so, and you've suddenly sprung a RAs letter on them, they're going to be wondering what you're doing in a role that is clearly unsuitable for your needs.

What aftercare are you receiving from the mental health team? I'd be very surprised if they have said it is ok for you to return to this work. Are you entitled to support under s. 117, or were you a s. 2 patient?

Bryando

ohreally wrote: »

You state the time pressures placed by your job are unacceptable yet you're looking at additional work only a few weeks back...http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=72207887&postcount=1

That was a few weeks back things change!

Bryando

I managed to speak to an employment Solicitor today and will be going in this week going to cost £300 for him to look at my contract.

He says that I could ask for a reasonable adjustment being only doing the !!!!!! I get that would suit. Think it's 4 shifts one week then 5 the other. So just do the 4 each week for example.
Psychiatry are not happy that I am doing all these hours and owning to the sleep it was a factor in my admission. As for the travel time. Solicitor said they have a duty under health and safety legislation. He will speak further with me.

So appears from the brief chat I do have a leg to stand on. He said if my contract makes me an employee then that leg is even more stronger. Again will discuss this week.

All I ask for is the ability to have enough sleep not exactly a massive ask! I should be able to work and take my medication. The law is in place for a reason.

To take my contract in, rotas, payslips and ALL emails I have sent and their reply.

The job suits me as in nobody to deal with. The client has sent a few emails with praise for me. Their HR folk have even raised concern about the hours myself and others do.

Bryando

IAmWales wrote: »

Is this the job you refused to declare your condition? If so, and you've suddenly sprung a RAs letter on them, they're going to be wondering what you're doing in a role that is clearly unsuitable for your needs.

What aftercare are you receiving from the mental health team? I'd be very surprised if they have said it is ok for you to return to this work. Are you entitled to support under s. 117, or were you a s. 2 patient?

So are you saying somebody asking for adjustments is unsuitable for the position?

IAmWales

Bryando wrote: »

I managed to speak to an employment Solicitor today and will be going in this week going to cost £300 for him to look at my contract.

He says that I could ask for a reasonable adjustment being only doing the !!!!!! I get that would suit. Think it's 4 shifts one week then 5 the other. So just do the 4 each week for example.

Psychiatry are not happy that I am doing all these hours and owning to the sleep it was a factor in my admission. As for the travel time. Solicitor said they have a duty under health and safety legislation. He will speak further with me.

So appears from the brief chat I do have a leg to stand on. He said if my contract makes me an employee then that leg is even more stronger. Again will discuss this week.

All I ask for is the ability to have enough sleep not exactly a massive ask! I should be able to work and take my medication. The law is in place for a reason.

To take my contract in, rotas, payslips and ALL emails I have sent and their reply.

The job suits me as in nobody to deal with. The client has sent a few emails with praise for me. Their HR folk have even raised concern about the hours myself and others do.

The job might suit you but you don't suit the job. You claim DLA because you say you need constant supervision, yet this job is working on your own. You can't have it both ways.

Bryando

IAmWales wrote: »

The job might suit you but you don't suit the job. You claim DLA because you say you need constant supervision, yet this job is working on your own. You can't have it both ways.

Who says I am still on DLA as I type? Plus evn on DLA that support does not need to be in place.

ohreally

Your going to be hard work and I suspect your employer will look to exit you out the door sooner rather than later.

Somethings going to give, I hope it isn't you.