Appealing a Private PCN

carter_092

Hi All

I have received a PCN from Euro Car Parks. As the registered keeper of the vehicle, I intend to submit an online appeal. I have read the advice in the NEWBIES FAQS thread and used the suggested template to inform my appeal (please see below). I would really appreciate any advice or feedback before I submit my appeal.

N.B. The PCN was issued because 'the vehicle exceeded the maximum parking time permitted by 23 minutes.' This occurred at a retail shopping park, where the driver was a genuine customer.

PCN: [ ]
Vehicle Registration Number: [ ]
Date issued: 07/05/17
Letter date:16/05/17

To Whom It May Concern
I challenge this ‘PCN’, as the registered keeper of the vehicle. I should be grateful if you would deal with all the issues I have set out below and provide specific answers to all questions raised. In this respect, I remind you of the obligations set out in the current Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.

I dispute your claim for the reasons set out below:

1. Inadequate information
I understand you do not own the car park and you have failed to provide any information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013.

2. Inadequate grace period
The alleged breach of contract relies upon the ANPR timings as the length of the stay – it does not allow an adequate grace period, as required by the BPA Code of Practice to which Euro Car Parks must adhere.

The CoP states:
13.1 Your approach to parking management must allow a driver who enters your car park but decides not to park, to leave the car park within a reasonable period without having their vehicle issued with a parking charge notice.

13.2 You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’ in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the driver is on your land without permission you should still allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave before you take enforcement action.

13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action.

3. The charge is disproportionate and not commercially justifiable
The amount you have charged is not based upon any commercially justifiable loss to your company or the landowner.

4. Contractual authority (as required by BPA Ltd AOS CoP B.7)
Please provide me with an unredacted copy of the contract between your company and the landowner/landholder that provides the necessary contractual written authority for the issue and enforcement of your PCN.

SUMMARY
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn.

If you reject this formal challenge or fail to address the issues that have been raised then, in accordance with the BPA AOS Code of Practice 22.12, please ensure that you enclose all the required information, including the necessary ‘POPLA verification code’, so that I may immediately refer the matter for their decision.

I have kept proof of the submission of this appeal and look forward to receiving a reply within 14 days.

Please Note: Unless you have specifically requested it and received my express permission, you do not have my authority to disclose or refer this letter or any other communication from me to any other person or organisation.

Yours

[name]

Fruitcake

What happened when you complained to the retail manager?

If you have read the NEWBIES, why aren't you using the ready made BPA template you will find there.

Pre-action protocol is for courts, not the parking scammers initial appeal.
23 minutes is outside the BPA grace periods, so is of no use. It looks like you are using an out of date BPA CoP because the wording of 13.4 you have quoted is different to the current version.
Disproportionate charge won't work since Mr Beavis lost at the supreme court in 2015.

carter_092

Hi

Thanks for your quick reply Fruitcake and for making me aware of all the errors (oops!)

I rang COSTA yesterday and spoke to the Duty Manager who said he hadn't dealt with anything like this before and advised me to call back today to speak to the Store Manager. This is the first time I've ever received a PCN and the retail park has only recently had the ANPR system installed, so I wanted to find out more about this process first i.e. how to complain to the Store Manager, what information is required, etc. I also wanted to have a letter ready to submit online to Euro Parks, in case the Store Manager cannot help me.

I was a genuine customer at the store and it was a really sunny day, so I chose to sit outside with my friend for the duration of my visit. I arrived at 12.06, browsed in some of the shops and then met my friend who arrived at 12.30. We were both in COSTA until 15.26. It was very busy and the queues were very long. We did order a number of drinks and food items during our stay. I bought the first 'round' and paid in cash (I wasn't given a receipt) and when my friend bought the second round, I think she used her card. Just before I left, I went in again to use the restroom. At this point, I remembered about the parking time limit and rushed back to my car, exiting the car park at 15.29.

Oops, I used the template as a starting point and then added further details from other sources that I thought were relevant to my individual to my case. Would I be better off copying and pasting the template from the NEWBIES thread word for word and removing all the extra info I have added? I added information about grace periods because I thought 10 mins for entering/finding a space + 3-5 minutes to locate and study the contract + 10 mins for exiting would be considered reasonable.

Thanks again

Umkomaas

Use the basic template because no matter what 'extras' you add, they will have no positive effect. You use those additional appeal points for where they will have positive effect (aka - keeping your powder dry!) - at POPLA.

Just so we're absolutely clear, will you confirm exactly who the parking company is, as you've use 2 variations in your posts - Euro Car Parks and Euro Parks. There are three different companies using 'Euro' as part of their names, one of which is an IPC member (a whole different kettle of fish - and procedure - to deal with).

carter_092

Hi

Okay Umkomaas, that makes sense... Thank you! Should I submit the appeal AND complain to the Store Manager? If so, does the same advice apply if I complain to the Manager? i.e. would I refer to myself as the keeper of the vehicle when liaising with them? Should I phone then or write a letter?

Oops, it is definitely Euro Car Parks.

Umkomaas

carter_092 wrote: »

Hi

Okay Umkomaas, that makes sense... Thank you! Should I submit the appeal AND complain to the Store Manager? If so, does the same advice apply if I complain to the Manager? i.e. would I refer to myself as the keeper of the vehicle when liaising with them? Should I phone then or write a letter?

Oops, it is definitely Euro Car Parks.

Appeal and complain in parallel. Awaiting the result of a complaint before appealing can sometimes get you perilously close to the deadline for the initial appeal - miss that and you've got the devil's own job to then get a POPLA code.

Personally, I'd start the complaint process off with a phone call (or preferably a face-to-face) with the local store manager. He/she may have access to a cancellation line. I wouldn't bother tying yourself up in knots by saying 'keeper' instead of 'driver', or 'me' or 'I' - in my view it becomes very unnatural and could make the manager a bit edgy/suspicious of what you are holding back, which would likely result in a fob-off line and referring you back to the PPC. Revealing the driver in that conversation won't be remembered, I'm sure.

If the above doesn't work, then it's a formal written complaint to the CEO. Then be careful of phrasing as the letter could be copied to the PPC.

None of the above is a set process, nor is it guaranteed (but we've seen plenty of successes which the OP initially doubted possible). But let's get this into context, you're dealing with a kitten of the private parking industry, not one of their hyenas or lions. They can easily be dispatched at POPLA if the complaint route doesn't produce for you.

Fruitcake

carter_092 wrote: »

Hi

Okay Umkomaas, that makes sense... Thank you! Should I submit the appeal AND complain to the Store Manager? If so, does the same advice apply if I complain to the Manager? i.e. would I refer to myself as the keeper of the vehicle when liaising with them? Should I phone then or write a letter?

Oops, it is definitely Euro Car Parks.

Yes, do both.
Complain to the manager as keeper and an occupant of the car. Your friend could have been the driver, or a family member dropped you off and went elsewhere.
It's OK to 'phone but you need to back it up in writing so get his/her name and write afterwards, further to our recent 'phone conversation on xx/yy/zzzz ...
You could also write to the UK CEO of Costalot.

I found out from a very helpful M & S manager that all the store managers at the big retail park near me have the ability to cancel PCNs. It's written into the contract between the landowner and the store operators.
You should ask the Costalot manager if that is the case here.

You should also ask what they are doing to ensure you and other genuine customers are warned about this unregulated scam otherwise he/she will soon find they have a lot of complaints, and ex-customers on their hands.

If you use other stores nearby, you can ask them to help out as well. Producing a store reward card is always useful even if you didn't shop there that day.

Be careful in your posts here. "I arrived" is OK, but it is getting very close to I drove or I parked.

Go back to the site and take pics of the entrance, including signs or lack thereof, location of signs around the parking area especially if they are high up or obscured, and take pics of the signs to show the inadequate wording.
Make sure the images are from the viewpoint of a driver. You may be surprised to find that arriving from a particular direction or driving through the car park via a particular route means the diver would not have seen any signs.
Don't get another PCN. :cool:

carter_092

Okay, will do. Thanks again!

carter_092

Hi

I spoke to the Store Manager and he said he can only do it for his staff and he can only do it on the day. Is this correct? What would you suggest I write in my letter to the CEO?

beamerguy

carter_092 wrote: »

Hi

I spoke to the Store Manager and he said he can only do it for his staff and he can only do it on the day. Is this correct? What would you suggest I write in my letter to the CEO?

The manager is fobbing you off.
Something you need to point out to the CEO

With ANPR, it's not a ticket the same day, it comes in the post at
a later time

You need to ask why can they cancel for staff but not customers, considering it is the customers who pay the staff wages

Ask the CEO if this manager is responsible enough to run a store

Close by asking if he values your business and your friends and he can prove this by cancelling the ticket