F1rst Parking TWO PCNs same day: 1 paid, 1 appealed and rejected!!!

Shoodie

Ok I have researched other threads and I do believe I am caught in a unique circumstances (do prove me wrong) which is why I have started a new one.

I was caught driving TWICE onto Royal Holloway university premises by ANPR cameras managed by F1rst Parking LLP (a member of the BPA). I was not ticketed but received two PCNs in the post.

The timings that day were:
Arrival time 12:50 Departure 14:17
Arrival time 14:26 Departure 17:53

The reason for the two visits is that I left just to grab some lunch. The reason I was visiting is that since I've been made redundant, I'm using their library to study for my next job. I was not aware their parking was so strictly enforced. A lame but honest excuse.

As I was in the wrong I decided to pay promptly the reduced fine of £30 for ONE of the tickets - the one which had the longer stay. I decided to appeal the other one on the grounds that it was one of two tickets on the same day and that I only left for a short moment and that I had already paid for one of the tickets. My logic was that had I not left I would have only been issued one ticket. I also mentioned that I was accused of allegedly breaching their parking regulations but their photographic evidence only showed when I entered and left the premises - not when (if indeed I was) parked during those times.

I was expecting they would show leniency. I was wrong. They rejected it.

Problem is I have now come to this site for help only to find that I have already shot myself in the foot....
When I appealed to F1rst Parking, I filled out their form admitting I was the driver and also provided them my home correspondence address.

I now realise I should NOT have done that!!

So my question is what are the BEST grounds on which to appeal to POPLA??? Or do I even appeal at all given what I have disclosed? :wall:

Fruitcake

You paid? We never, recommend that. Most PCNs can be beaten provided you do your research.

Yes you should always appeal.

There are several template appeal points you can use from post 3 of the NEWBIES thread. You should use all that apply.

Umkomaas

There's no 'leniency' in this game!

You forget about the second ticket, that's over and done with. Treat your first one as completely separate. You've appealed that, but we don't know how many of your toes you've blown off in the process. Can you copy and paste that for us to see?

Did they send you a POPLA code with their rejection letter? When does the code expire?

You've given us the timings of the events, can you give us the date and when you received the PPC's notification of the parking charge?

The NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3 covers how to appeal to POPLA, with some ready written template appeal points. Use those to develop your first draft and let us see it for critique and fine tuning. But first, provide answers to the preceding questions.

Shoodie

we don't know how many of your toes you've blown off in the process.

:o:o:o Thanks

Can you copy and paste that for us to see?

I'd have expected for them to email me a copy of my appeal for reference. They did not so the exact wording is lost. But I hope the gist I have provided in my opening post will suffice. Their response didn't seem to particularly acknowledge anything I said anyway.

Here's a paste:

We acknowledge receipt of your appeal, regarding the above parking charge. Parking at this site is only for vehicles that are parked in accordance with the terms and conditions, as detailed on the signage on site. This signage is clear, in line with industry standards and clearly details any charges that may be imposed, should these terms and conditions be breached.

I have now had the opportunity to review this case and my findings are:
After reviewing the photographic evidence and also your appeal information; on this occasion I will be rejecting the appeal. It is the driver's responsibility to ensure they are registered/authorised to park on site.
As your vehicle was parked in contravention of the Terms and Conditions of the car park, we are satisfied that the notice was issued correctly in accordance with the BPA Code of Practice and are therefore unable to waiver the charge on this occasion.

You have now reached the end of our internal appeals process

Therefore please choose from one of the following options:

1.Pay the parking charge at the price of £60

Methods of payment:
* Pay by Phone – Call 0200 333 1995
* Pay online – visit paymyparking net
* Pay by Post – send a cheque or postal order made payable to First Parking LLP to the following address:

First Parking LLP, OFFICE 7, 35-37 LUDGATE HILL, LONDON, EC4M 7JN, UNITED KINGDOM

Please be advised that debit card payments made will incur a £1 transaction fee and credit cards will incur a 3% transaction fee.

2. Make an appeal to POPLA within 28 days from the rejection date – The Independent Appeals Service at popla org uk/default htm. Please note that if you wish to appeal to POPLA, you will lose the right to pay the charge at the discounted rate of £30 (if applicable), and should POPLA's decision not go in your favour you will be required to pay the full amount of £60. By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services (ombudsman-services org) provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above

3. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us through our debt recovery service and may proceed with Court action against you. First Parking may also conduct a search with a credit bureau.

Yours Sincerely

Did they send you a POPLA code with their rejection letter? When does the code expire?

Yes they did provide a POPLA appeal verification code. It was received today so I'm assuming it expires in 28 days.

can you give us the date and when you received the PPC's notification of the parking charge?

I picked it up in the post yesterday from my old address where I no longer live. It may have been delivered any time within the last 7 days. I'm in the process of updating DVLA of my new address. Are there any particular dates you are after?

Coupon-mad

I picked it up in the post yesterday from my old address where I no longer live. It may have been delivered any time within the last 7 days. I'm in the process of updating DVLA of my new address. Are there any particular dates you are after?

No, it doesn't matter about dates, because that toe was blown off when you admitted to being the driver.

Why not search the forum for 'F1rst POPLA' (including the number '1' instead of 'i' in the company spelling). You will find loads of examples of long POPLA appeals that have killed off these fake PCNs for months. They infest several universities.

Only read recent ones from 2016/17.

And read post #3 of the NEWBIES thread. There are several POPLA appeal templates you can use.

As I was in the wrong I decided to pay promptly the reduced fine of £30 for ONE of the tickets

Ouch...no-one PAYS this scummy industry. They are not worthy of your money.

Shoodie

Hi all, on POPLA the Operator has responded with 'Information and Evidence'. It's a 25 page PDF document consisting of photographs of my car entering and leaving the campus (not parked), signage, their computer display showing screenshots that I don't have a permit for parking, the University's rules for parking, the campus map of parking areas, T&Cs for Service, etc.


In that document they have concluded:
'As you can see from the photographic evidence the appellant has failed to register their vehicle. By the driver's own admission on their online appeal there were the driver on the day of the contravention. There is clear and adequate signage in the car park that shows the regulations to the motorists. The driver has therefore not adhered to the parking regulations.'


(That quote is word for word, I must add, including the grammar.)


POPLA have asked for me to comment. How do I respond?

Coupon-mad

Pick out the bits they've failed on:

- have they included a landowner contract? We assume you included that point in your appeal (you didn't come back to show us a draft). Hope you used all the usual ammo.

- are their photos of the signs clear? REALLY clear, can you read the £60 or whatever?

- are their signage pics dated at a similar time to the car being there?

- have they got pics showing the car and the sign, in the same image?

- is there a close up of the dashboard proving (beyond doubt), no permit?

Pick out where they have failed, compared to the points you appealed on.

Shoodie

- have they included a landowner contract?
I'm not sure. They've included what is called 'Terms and Conditions of Contract for Services' between the University and F1rst Parking.

- are their photos of the signs clear? REALLY clear, can you read the £60 or whatever?
They haven't included any photos of the signage. They've included electronic versions of their signs on which the £60 is clear yes.

- have they got pics showing the car and the sign, in the same image?
No they have not.

- is there a close up of the dashboard proving (beyond doubt), no permit?
No there is not.

Umkomaas

They could be struggling then.

Rip them apart on missing/unclear evidence. Don't hold back?

Coupon-mad

Shoodie wrote: »

- have they included a landowner contract?
I'm not sure. They've included what is called 'Terms and Conditions of Contract for Services' between the University and F1rst Parking.

- are their photos of the signs clear? REALLY clear, can you read the £60 or whatever?
They haven't included any photos of the signage. They've included electronic versions of their signs only...

- have they got pics showing the car and the sign, in the same image?
No they have not.

- is there a close up of the dashboard proving (beyond doubt), no permit?
No there is not.

There you go then, you have your bullet points for POPLA in your comments about the evidence. That was easy!

Point all of the above out. Wow, no images of the signs in situ?! Madness.

Shoodie

Thanks. I will. But would you class 'Terms and Conditions of Contract for Services' as a landowner contract?