Genoise Sponge

kah22

Recently I've been experimenting with genoise sponge and have baked two over this past week and while they are not perfect they are passable.

My problem is that when I remove the cake from the oven it sinks a little, even though it has passed the finger test

I see two possible reasons. The first and most obvious is that the cake hasn't been in the oven long enough. I've given the one I baked earlier today 32 mins at 180 centigrade

The second and less obvious might be structure. As the cake has no rising agent and relies on the eggs for its volume it might be that my folding technique is amiss and while folding in the flour and melted butter I knocked out to much air, my technique needs worked on 🤔

The genoise is a great tasting sponge and probably more versatile than the Victoria. When I get my technique right this will be my go to sponge so any comments welcomed. Here is my RECIPE you can also see Eric Lakelard demonstrate his version HERE

System

Sorry I can't help, but good luck with perfecting your genoise sponge. A foolproof Victoria Sponge recipe is about my level of culinary expertise!

kah22

I'm sure you can do better than that. I find Delia Smith's website a good starting point for learning the basics

System

kah22 wrote: »

I'm sure you can do better than that. I find Delia Smith's website a good starting point for learning the basics

I'm not so sure. I get very disheartened when I spend a long time trying out a new recipe only for it to go wrong, so I tend to stick to my tried and tested things.

kah22

avogadro wrote: »

I'm not so sure. I get very disheartened when I spend a long time trying out a new recipe only for it to go wrong, so I tend to stick to my tried and tested things.

Do you drive a car? Sounds a silly question I know but just think what it was like the first time you set behind the wheel of a car and tried to drive it. Did you go like this. 😱 Or this. 😬 Get the point?

I first got interested in cooking in my mid 30's I went to a night class, men only, ten weeks, ten dishes. It was about ten years ago I ventured into baking a simple loaf in a bread machine and from there: Apple pie, meringue, Christmas cake, scones, the lot. And yes like yourself I get stuck but I ask advice there is many a dish or cake I've made that no one but the bin man know about :rotfl:, it may take a few goes but I get there

Don't put your self down have a go. Here's a challenge . The Gordon Ramsay Carrot Cake

The Connaught’s carrot cake
Makes 1kg loaf cake for 8-10

200g wholemeal plain flour
1 tsp ground mixed spice
1 tsp bicarbonate of soda
225g carrots
1 large orange
250g dark soft brown sugar
150ml sunflower oil
2 medium free-range eggs
110g sultanas
50g desiccated coconut
50g chopped walnuts
1 tbsp fresh lemon juice

1 Grease a 1kg loaf tin and line the base with a rectangle of baking parchment. Heat the oven to 150C, Gas 2.
2 Sieve the flour together with the spice and bicarbonate of soda. If the bran won’t rub through then tip it into the mixed spicy flour. Don’t throw it out.
3 Peel and coarsely grate the carrots. You should have around 200g. Finely grate the zest of the orange and squeeze half the juice. Set each aside.
4 Beat 175g of the sugar with the oil and orange zest in a large electric mixer until smooth. Alternatively, beat in a large bowl by hand. You cannot use a food processor or you will pulverise the fruit and carrot.
5 Beat in the eggs one by one until light and creamy. Mix in the sieved spicy flour until smooth then finally fold in the grated carrot, sultanas, coconut and walnuts. Scoop into the prepared loaf tin, level the top and bake on a heavy metal baking sheet for 1 hour 20-25 minutes. You can check the cake is cooked by inserting a metal skewer into its centre, which should come out clean. The top should also be quite firm when pressed.
6 Meanwhile, while the cake is baking, heat the juice of the half orange with the remaining sugar and lemon juice in a small saucepan. Don’t let it boil, but heat it enough for the sugar to dissolve.
7 When the cake is cooked, remove from the oven and run a table knife around the edges to loosen. Poke holes all over it with a round skewer then slowly pour the orangey syrup over it into the holes and round the edges. It takes a little time for the cake to absorb this but eventually it absorbs it all. Leave the cake in the tin until all the syrup is absorbed then turn out, remove the base paper and cool completely.

Go on have a go 👍

Callie22

It might be worthwhile getting an oven thermometer and and checking the temperature of your oven. It may be that you're not actually getting to the temperature that you think you are and you're actually pulling the cake out when it's slightly under-done, leading to a drop afterwards. Depending on the type of oven you're using, it's very possible that you're getting sufficient browning, so that the cake looks done, but it's not cooked enough in the middle. I find the skewer test more reliable than testing it with your finger, as the top may be set when the middle isn't. Pressing (gently) on the top of the cake won't tell you what the middle is up to!

Or it could be that you're being a bit rough folding in the flour - you need the air bubbles to heat up and expand to give you the lift and if you're knocking them out too much you won't get the rise. However, that's less likely to be an issue if you are getting the rise during cooking but you're seeing a drop when you take it out of the oven. Usually that's due to under-baking, but Genoise is a tricky one to get right as it's so delicate.

kah22

Thanks for the feedback Callie22. Under done probable is the answer, and yes an oven thermometer might be useful (now where did I put my old one). As a matter of interest the oven is hardly 18 months old, it's a Neff, one of there CircoTherm range

System

kah22 wrote: »

Don't put your self down have a go. Here's a challenge . The Gordon Ramsay Carrot Cake

As long as Gordon Ramsay's not going to be there, cussing and swearing at my attempts :eek::rotfl: I have never tried his recipes, but I don't doubt he is a good chef. I am a bit put off by his tv persona if I'm honest!

But I am determined to add some more meals to our (very limited) menu plan, so wish me luck. I'll try some savoury dishes first, as they're more important nutritionally (though I would quite gladly live on cake!)

Gem-gem

Hi,
I have just checked your Genoese sponge recipe with the one that I have used Since my training days at a catering college. A very tried and tested recipe
4 eggs
100g castor sugar
100g soft flour
50g butter, marg or oil.

Whisk the eggs and sugar with a balloon whisk over a pan of hot water.
Continue until mixture is light, creamy, double in bulk.
Remove from the heat and whisk until cold and thick (ribbon stage).
Fold in the flour very gently (Use a metal spoon).
Fold in the melted butter very gently.
Place in a greased, floured, Genoses mound or cake tin.
In a moderately hot oven (200° to 220°C) approximately 30 minutes.

Sunken cake: oven too Hot or tin removed during cooking.

Gem-gem

Callie22 wrote: »

It might be worthwhile getting an oven thermometer and and checking the temperature of your oven. It may be that you're not actually getting to the temperature that you think you are and you're actually pulling the cake out when it's slightly under-done, leading to a drop afterwards. Depending on the type of oven you're using, it's very possible that you're getting sufficient browning, so that the cake looks done, but it's not cooked enough in the middle. I find the skewer test more reliable than testing it with your finger, as the top may be set when the middle isn't. Pressing (gently) on the top of the cake won't tell you what the middle is up to!

Or it could be that you're being a bit rough folding in the flour - you need the air bubbles to heat up and expand to give you the lift and if you're knocking them out too much you won't get the rise. However, that's less likely to be an issue if you are getting the rise during cooking but you're seeing a drop when you take it out of the oven. Usually that's due to under-baking, but Genoise is a tricky one to get right as it's so delicate.

I agree that they can be tricky. Great advice here.

Gem-gem

With a chocolate Genoese sustitute 1 ounce of soft flour with 1/2 oz of cornflour and 1/2 oz of cocoa powder.