appeal to POLA - car pak ticket purchased & dispalyed but Indigo contesting

SJ30

Hey all,


Hi looking for any help anyone can provide on challenging car park fine from Indigo.


On holiday recently parked in an Indigo run car park at brookmans park train station, bought ticket and displayed it. On return to car have received parking fine on basis that breach code 01 - parking without displaying valid payment. the ticket could be seen displayed on the passenger window opposite the parking penalty notice on the drivers side!
contested this by appeal to Indigo by sending photo of ticket purchased and photo of ticket displayed and making case.


They came back to say that although ticket was purchased it did not match our car registration. they also said that car parking attendant said that ticket not displayed.


we have never used this facility before not being from England and it looks now that when purchasing our ticket that the car reg of the person before or after us was what issued. we had no idea. I am not sure if the signage displayed this? we didn't realise the random code on the ticket was supposed to be our car reg. we were rushing to get train and thought we had done everything required.


it seems hugely unfair to be facing a fine of £60-£124 when we did purchase and pay for a ticket and did display it. I have appealed this to POPLA and submitted the evidence and Indigo have now replied. I have 7 days from 8 May to reply.


As part of their case Indigo have submitted photos of the signage and photo of our car that looks like there is no ticket displayed. it was there when we got back to car and so I am suspicious that the non-uniformity of the photos looks very much like they have been cropped to cut out our displayed ticket! to support their case. If anyone has any points that would help me out in going back to them i would be very grateful for it.


thanks in advance


SJ

waamo

As you have now appealed to POPLA all you can do is wait. I suspect your appeal was a weak one and you will probably lose.

As this was a railway car park I'm assuming somewhere byelaws are mentioned? Please tell us whether or not this is the case?

If this is a byelaws case then ignore a POPLA ruling against you. Byelaws have to be prosecuted in a court to be upheld. Indigo are essentially offering a bribe for you not to get prosecuted.

Indigo don't have the right to prosecute themselves so are toothless really. Any prosecution must be brought within 6 months of the event. After that all they can do is beg for money.

So please confirm are byelaws mentioned anywhere?

Umkomaas

we have never used this facility before not being from England

If you're not from England, where is your country of residence?

SJ30

Hey Umkimaas and waamo
1- Yes - Railway byelaw 14(4) is mentioned in the letter from Indigo,
2- We live in NI.


does that help us out in anyway?


SJ

waamo

Perfect. I doubt anybody would attempt a prosecution. It would be more trouble than it's worth.

It's the train operating company that has to bring a byelaws prosecution. If they do they don't get any of the money. It goes to central coffers.

I can't see a private company figuring out how to prosecute a NI citizen, carrying it out then getting no fee for it. It doesn't make commercial sense.

What they will do is send scary letters hoping to frighten you into paying. What they won't tell you is 6 months after the event they have no power to prosecute even.

SJ30

hey


This is all the detail from our appeal to Indigo, their refusal, our appeal to POPLA and the evidence subsequently presented to POPLA by Indigo. Our appeal is probably very naïve based on detail on MSE we have now seen but grateful for any suggestions anyone has on what to put back to POPLA? or if there is any other solutions to this?


It looks like the photographs of our care are heavily pixelated and cropped.


It also seems hugely disproportionate fine considering the 'breach'. Am just so annoyed as really thought we had paid for ticket, displayed ticket and did the best we could to keep to the rules here. seems so petty tbh. do you think there is a chance that if this is a railway byelaw that it might go away?


thanks in advance.


SJ30

waamo

I wouldn't bother putting anything back to POPLA. It will be a waste of time and effort.

I would relax and laugh at the junk mail they send and after 6 months have a celebratory drink safe in the knowledge that any more threats are as empty as it's possible to be.

Coupon-mad

I would, as it's Indigo, because they can't win:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/72506738#Comment_72506738

Rude not to...

SJ30

1- This is the detail of the case (mentioned in previous post - this is now in two posts).


2 - We live in Northern Ireland so presume under same jurisdiction and prob no different to being from Scotland I imagine for any prosecution being considered.




Notice from Indigo to POPLA:





Penalty notices: Rail Appeals


Site: Brookmans Park \ Car Park


Reference:


VRM: xxxxxx


Other Make: xxx


Other Model:


Other Colour:


Issue Date: 17 Feb 2017


Issue Time:


Breach Date: 17 Feb 2017


Breach Time:


Issued By: xxxx


Reason: 01 Parked without displaying valid payment








Case Summary / Terms and Conditions


· Vehicle issued with PN on 17/02/2017


· Appeal received on 12/03/2017


· Rejection pack sent to customer on 19/03/2017


Vehicle was issued with a PN at the Brookmans Park Train Station Car Park for


failing to display a valid ticket.


The terms and conditions of the car park state that all vehicles must display a


valid parking ticket or have a valid E-ticket for the full duration of the stay. As the


Parking Attendant was unable to observe a valid ticket in the windscreen of the


vehicle and upon checking the registration on their PDA was unable to locate a


valid E-ticket, it has correctly been issued with a PN.


By entering the car park, the customer is agreeing to park in accordance with the


terms and conditions and it is the customer's responsibility to ensure they


observe the terms and conditions before leaving their vehicle in the car park.


These terms and conditions were displayed throughout the car park





Any Other Correspondence Between Complainant & Operator


No other correspondence sent/received











ORIGINAL APPEAL OF THE NOTICE TO INDIGO:





In accordance with the terms and conditions of parking I detail below the appeal against the penalty notice issued on 17 February 2017 in respect of my car parked at the Bookman’s Park railway station car park.





In accordance with the terms and conditions this appeal has been made within the requisite 28 days from the date of issue of the notice.





I can confirm that in accordance with Rail Byelaw 14 (3) that my vehicle was parked with the appropriate car parking charge at the appropriate time.





I would therefore contest the Breach code 01: parked without displaying valid payment.


This is on the basis that;

• As required, I did purchase the correct payment ticket at 09.20 on 17 February that was to expire on 18.02.17 at 04:00 hours.
• As required the ticket was displayed where it could be seen.

Please note that the Ticket reference is 784567.





As evidence of this I attach

• a photograph(s) of the ticket purchased, and
• a photograph(s) that shows the ticket as displayed on the passenger side window of my vehicle.

I was shocked to discover on my return to the car park at approx 12.30 pm that I had been issued with this notice given that the car parking ticket was visibly displayed on the passenger window and could in fact be seen looking through the driver door where the penalty notice had been attached.


I immediately rang the telephone number detailed on the notice but there was no facility to either speak to someone or to leave a message.





On the day in question, my husband completed this process:

1. Examined the payment meter and followed the instructions on it by:

2. Inserted into payment meter the required payment amount, using loose change.


3. Entered any required data via parking meter interface, including car registration plate details.


4. Took ticket generated from payment meter.


5. Stuck ticket to passenger side window, clearly visible from outside the car.





I would be grateful for confirmation by return of receipt of this appeal.





The appeal has been made within the specified deadline of within 28 days of the date of issue of ticket.

SJ30

post 2 - with detail of the case.




Appeal to POPLA:





In accordance with Rail Byelaw 14 (3) my vehicle was parked with the appropriate car parking charge at the appropriate time. I contest the Breach code 01: parked without displaying valid payment on the basis that;

• As required, I did purchase the correct payment ticket at xxx on 17 February that was to expire on xxx at 04:00 hours.
• As required the ticket was displayed where it could be seen (Ticket reference 7xxxxx).

As evidence;

• a photograph(s) of the ticket purchased, &
• a photograph(s) that shows the ticket displayed on the passenger side window of my vehicle.

I was shocked to discover on my return to the car park at approx 12.30 pm that I had been issued with a notice given that the parking ticket was visibly displayed on the passenger window & could in fact be seen looking through the driver door where the penalty notice had been attached.


On the day in question, my husband completed this process:

[*]Examined the payment meter & followed the instructions on it by:



2. Inserted into payment meter the required payment amount, using loose change.


3. Entered any required data via parking meter interface, including car registration plate details.


4. Took ticket generated from payment meter.


5. Stuck ticket to passenger side window, clearly visible from outside the car.


I have now received notification that my appeal has been rejected & notice has been upheld on the grounds that my vehicle was parked without displaying a valid ticket. I did purchase a valid ticket, the ticket was displayed. As per the operational requirements detailed in section 20.5b of the British Parking Association Code of Practice there is a requirement ‘in deciding whether a payment ticket has been visibly displayed on a vehicle you must do a thorough visual check of the dashboard and windows’. I believe that on the 17 February that Indigo Park Solutions failed to do this.





License plate number:


It is only on the response from Indigo Park Solutions that I am now aware that the code on the parking ticket purchased (LSI5 ZHN) is actually a number plate. As I live in Northern Ireland where we have slightly different number plating sequences, this is an unfamiliar license numbering & I was not aware that this was a number plate. The instructions on the ticket machine did not indicate that number plate would be detailed on the ticket. My husband did enter the number plate of our car, xxx xxxx as he was paying the money for the ticket, & this should be on the system of Indigo Park solutions. It would seem that the ticket machine issued our ticket with the license plate number of the person in front of us in the queue. It would seem likely that the person after us in the queue was issued a ticket with our number plate. My number plate should be on the system of Indigo parking.





Had I been made aware that the parking ticket should have detailed my number plate I would have known immediately that the ticket was not in relation to my vehicle & would have been able to purchase another ticket. Regardless of this I did pay the correct amount for the parking & I did display the parking ticket clearly. In this I complied fully with the terms & conditions of the car park. The initial penalty notice stated that I had parked without displaying valid payment & this is incorrect. The penalty notice did not make any reference to number plate – this has only been referenced by Indigo parking when I appealed against the penalty notice.

SJ30

The Indigo evidence letters to POPLA are PDF so cannot attach this but in summary:


1- Letter from Indigo says to uphold penalty notice for reason of 01- parked without displaying valid payment,
2 - they say 'having reviewed the evidence, your vehicle has been parked within the car park without displaying a valid ticket and upon searching their PDA, the parking attendance has also been unable to locate a valid e-ticket for you vehicle and therefore this notice was issued.'
3- they go on ' whilst I have noted your provided ticket to ensure that you are in full compliance of regulations of the car park it is your responsibility to ensure that a valid ticket is always displayed while parked in the car park. Failure to pay and display a valid parking ticket is an automatic breach of the terms and conditions of the car park. your vehicle reg is xxx whilst the provided ticket was purchased for vehicle reg (someone else reg).


they also say a Penalty notice will be issued for any breach of the instructions on the signage and in accordance with railway byelaw 14(4)(I). the penalty for such breach is £100.