Recieved Claim form from Court in respect of UKCPS

taffyd

Have today received a claim form from UKCPS in respect of a PCN issued on 02/01/17. This was the New Years bank holiday. We parked our car on this plot of land as we had done many times before so we could see our local premiership football team home match. We only ever use this car park on these days as it is busy. We live be locally. We know the car park well. We normally pull up and pay £2 to a lady sitting in a car. No ticket has ever been issued by her to us previously this season or most of last season. We haven't been season ticket holders for long. This car park would normally have a low slung chain across the entrance when not in use. It was not there on the day we got the PCN and the car park was full . We were late arriving and took the last spot but on this occasion and on the home match on the 17/12/16 there was no one available to take our fee. We arrived at 2:30 ish on the 2nd to find several people milling around and looking bemused. Neither my wife nor myself noticed any change and no new signage - but we weren't looking for any - simply believing it was holiday time and the parking was free or that the person normally there to collect was herself on holiday or was sick. As the car park was full we felt it acceptable to park as we had done for the home match on the 17th December and for which we did not get a PCN.

To complicate matters further we did not notice the PCN stuck to our windscreen until several days after it was issue. It was infact, our windowcleaner who brought to our attention. This was because it was stuck where the tax disc was and thus we were so used to seeing something stuck there we never notice the PCN stuck on the outside of the car even though we must have driven the. At once or twice since it was applied - however, being retired, owning two cars and just after the Christmas Holidays we did not use the car much. Plus, it was parked to the rear of the house and out of view.

I wrote to UKCPS and asked that the ridiculous charge be revoked. They took this letter to be my appeal and then refused to allow me to appeal. I have now received a Claim form from them for £150 plus court fee of £25. I have been online and have sought to increase my time allowed to 28 days instead of 14 days allowed to mount a defence and would now ask this forum to give me advice as to how to proceed.

Regards

Taffyd

waamo

Read this thread multiple times until it sinks in https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822

Pay particular attention to the section on defending a court claim. It's an incredibly comprehensive guide but does take a bit of reading.

taffyd

Thankyou. I'm reading it through for the second time as we speak.

Taffyd

taffyd

Today I revisited the car park where my PCN was attached to my car's windscreen. This time I parked in the Local Authority's car park next door. My wife and I arrived early so that we could take pictures of the signage UKCPS have erected as I knew it was in a state of disrepair. However, I was amazed to see the lady who is usually there take the £2 charge sitting in her car as normal. I also took a photograph of this car. My wife and I approached the lady and asked why she was not there on the 2nd January 2017 for the Bank Holiday Match. She pointed out that this was on a Monday and that from Monday to Friday, the Private Land as owned by her sister-in-law was permit only. I asked about the signage and if it was only put up this year as I did not see any on the day my PCN was affixed. She told us the signage was incorrect and that it needs to come down as it is fastened to the fence by steel clips that are immovable. I informed of my pictures and that I hoped she was OK with that. She said she was and that there were never any fines anyway. I informed her UKCPS had issued me with court proceedings to which she said that was unlikely to be contested.

It appears this land has only recently had a permit system applied to it and that is only for Mondays to Fridays. However, as I visited on a National Holiday (02.01.17) I needed a permit. But, as there was not signage to tell us this - how were we to know we needed a permit.

Also, the lady in the car seemed to be saying that the current signage is incorrectly affixed to fencing as in Saturdays when it is a match day she needs to remove them and can't because they are now fixed with immovable steel strapping instead of nylon wire ties.

Am reading up rapidly but am concerned I will not have a good defence. Not because I feel I was in the wrong but because of the complex process I must adhere to and find confusing to say the least.

All and any help most gratefully received.

Taffyd

Coupon-mad

I informed her UKCPS had issued me with court proceedings to which she said that was unlikely to be contested.

She is clueless. And the point is, they started the court claim so it is for you to contest!

It appears this land has only recently had a permit system applied to it and that is only for Mondays to Fridays. However, as I visited on a National Holiday (02.01.17) I needed a permit. But, as there was not signage to tell us this - how were we to know we needed a permit.

A recent change to enforcement terms MUST be clearly signed. Ideally with extra signs to alert locals who will be familiar with the old terms and would not go looking for new terms (why would they?).

Am reading up rapidly but am concerned I will not have a good defence. Not because I feel I was in the wrong but because of the complex process I must adhere to and find confusing to say the least.

It's not that complex, just a couple of stages (acknowledgement, then defence, all covered in post #2 of the NEWBIES thread) then a Witness Statement (WS) and hearing - also covered in the same thread, and examples are all over the forum of court cases won.

I'm not legally trained and I get it. You just need an eye for detail and to copy what others have done, it really is that generic. New posters all start like you, and THEY WIN. we've not seen one lost on here where people follow the advice exactly, and then at WS stage too.

Don't forget as well, that UKCPS were banned by the DVLA a few months ago (temporarily - October till December). Send a FOI request to the DVLA to ask WHY and WHICH LOCATIONS were considered non-compliant and what was wrong (signs, documentation, landowner contracts, paperwork procedures, saying a keeper was liable in non-POFA cases, or what)?

Ask for specifics including a copy of emails exchanged with UKCPS and their Trade Body about the issue that caused UKCPS to be banned. Be really clear what you want to see. If you don't ask, they won't show it.

Do that NOW, using 'WhatdotheyKnow' so we can all see the answer when the DVLA reply. I was told by someone that it might have been to do with ticketing with unclear/no signs or outside of their remit but that's not known for sure. Find out, it may well help you later.

Get that out of the way then acknowledge the claim which is all explained with an 'idiots guide' in post #2 of the NEWBIES thread.

Then into your defence - you can do this!

taffyd

Can you suggest how I go about finding out when UKCPS first erected their signage? I believe it was not there on the 2 January and only when My window cleaner handed me the PCN some several days later did I go to visit the site again to find new signage had been erected. Can I also find out when the land became permit only on Monday to Friday. I ask because for years I have passed the site in the week to park in the adjoining council car park to see only one or two cars parked on the site and behind the chained off entrance. Now, When I pass mid week I see it full. This all seems to have happened since January, new year.

In speaking to the lady in the car she seemed to be suggesting that normally the signage is removed on match day Saturday's and then replaced for permit parking during the working week. As I have only ever parked there on Saturdays I could never have known about the weekday signage and hence we never thought to look for it on the 2nd Jan - not that we thought it was there anyway! However, today as we visited she was saying it was wrongly placed or wired to the fencing incorrectly as it could no longer be removed on match days. So, today Parker were in the odd position of parking on permit only land, according to the signage, yet having to pay £2 to the lady sitting in the car with the big sign saying 'please pay here' displayed in her front window.

Regards

Taffyd

Coupon-mad

You should write a letter (keep proof of posting) asking those questions, reminding them of the 'overriding objective' in sharing relevant information to resolve a court dispute.

DO NOT WAIT to acknowledge & then defend the case, do it all at the same time (this month - acknowledgement is URGENT).

And the FOI to the DVLA too.

taffyd

I will do as you suggest and get them in Monday morning's post.

Many thanks,

Taffyd

Coupon-mad

Only the UKCPS letter needs to use the post.

You are not posting back the claim form/defence (you're not doing the defence until after we've seen it) after you've done the online acknowledgement as the NEWBIES thread post #2 talks you through.

waamo

Coupon has it nailed (as always) it can't be stressed enough acknowledge the claim online asap. You do not have to enter a defence yet. This gives you an extension to enter a defence you've had the folk here look over.

Keep reading the Newbies thread on court defences. They work.

taffyd

Thankyou people. I'm beginning to feel I'm amongst friends.

Regards,

Taffyd