Transferring sharesave shares into an ISA

flopsy1973

Ok so I have below
4295 shares at 1.46
2811 shares at 3.20
1804 shares at 4.98

So average cost is 3.21 considering the other factors in case I have misunderstood how it works how many can I sell this year up to my cgt allowance?

Vortigern

What happened to the 1784 shares at 5.044 each that you mentioned earlier? Should these be part of your calculation?

To work out how many to sell we would need to know the current share price and/or the name of the share.

flopsy1973

Sorry yes was in a rush and forgot to add that bit just want to check am I getting the same amount in my calculations
The 1784 shares I am transferring to isa within the 90 day window
The shares are 8.31 BTG
The other thing if I'm doing the average is I have saye scheme on going now and this will be paid out prorata i think when the takeover is finalised.Surely this needs to be taken into consideration too with the above average working out

bowlhead99

flopsy1973 wrote: »

Ok so I have below
4295 shares at 1.46
2811 shares at 3.20
1804 shares at 4.98

So average cost is 3.21 considering the other factors in case I have misunderstood how it works how many can I sell this year up to my cgt allowance?

Imagine the sale price is £8.21: if your cost price is £3.21, you would make a profit of a fiver per share. So, "how many fivers will use up your CGT exemption this year", gives you the answer of how many shares you can sell without exceeding your exemption

However, the sale price isn't going to be exactly £8.21, that's just a number I made up for convenience. So adjust that accordingly to the actual number you expect to get when selling on the stock market, which will change the 'fiver profit per share' into some other number, so changing the total amount of shares you can sell without going over this year's annual CGT exemption.

If you have not yet exercised the options and you had a lot of time to spare before the end of the tax year, there would perhaps have been scope to play around with which options to exercise in what order. It would be optimal if you could transfer the ones bought at 1.46 directly into the ISA because they would contribute the most to your profit per share, whereas there is not much profit per share, relatively, on the 1784 shares you bought for 5.04. But if those were exercised more than 90 days ago, you've missed the opportunity.

flopsy1973 wrote: »

The other thing if I'm doing the average is I have saye scheme on going now and this will be paid out prorata i think when the takeover is finalised.Surely this needs to be taken into consideration too with the above average working out

If you are still contributing to a scheme, saving month by month, for which you haven't exercised the options, and won't exercise the options until next year (or will perhaps be paid out instead of exercising them) then you don't own the shares now and they can't possibly be brought into a calculation of the average cost of shares you are selling now, this tax year. If you eventually get the shares next year, they will be added to the pool of shares you still have at that point (if any) and affect the average cost of the shares in the pool that you have left at that point, from that point on.

Vortigern

flopsy1973 wrote: »

Ok so I have below
4295 shares at 1.46
2811 shares at 3.20
1804 shares at 4.98

So average cost is 3.21 considering the other factors in case I have misunderstood how it works how many can I sell this year up to my cgt allowance?

Your average cost is not £3.21 it's £2.72

4295 shares @ 1.46 cost £6270.70
2811 shares @ 3.20 cost £8995.20
1804 shares @ 4.98 cost £8983.92

So you have 8910 shares at a total cost of £24,249.82

£24,249.82 divided by 8910 is £2.72 and that is your average cost per share.

If you sell at £8.315 your gain is £5.595 per share

CGT allowance is £11700 this year

11700/5.595 = 2091

You can sell 2091 shares within your CGT allowance, if you have not used any of that allowance elsewhere.

bowlhead99

Vortigern wrote: »

Your average cost is not £3.21 it's £2.72

4295 shares @ 1.46 cost £6270.70
2811 shares @ 3.20 cost £8995.20
1804 shares @ 4.98 cost £8983.92

So you have 8910 shares at a total cost of £24,249.82

Wow good spot- I made my comments without thinking to recalculate the average price paid per share, as I thought the fact that (s)he had listed out the amounts and put the average at the bottom meant they'd already done the calculation of how much did they end up paying for each of the shares that they'd bought.

If you buy some shares at 1.46 and some at 3.20 and some at 4.98, the average price paid for each share isn't just the average of adding 1.46, 3.20 and 4.98 and dividing by three; if you buy loads at the cheap price and not many at the expensive price, the average paid per share isn't going to be bang in the middle of the prices.

flopsy1973

Vortigern wrote: »

Your average cost is not £3.21 it's £2.72

4295 shares @ 1.46 cost £6270.70
2811 shares @ 3.20 cost £8995.20
1804 shares @ 4.98 cost £8983.92

So you have 8910 shares at a total cost of £24,249.82

£24,249.82 divided by 8910 is £2.72 and that is your average cost per share.

If you sell at £8.315 your gain is £5.595 per share

CGT allowance is £11700 this year

11700/5.595 = 2091

You can sell 2091 shares within your CGT allowance, if you have not used any of that allowance elsewhere.

Thanks for that yes now I'd seen that my mistake was so obvious. But the other thing that your calculations alerted me to was the fact that the first batch at 1.46 originally was 6186 shares which cost me 9000 approx. I bed and breakfast some of those shares some time later into isa which left me with the balance of 4295 . So will that make a difference to these calculations?

eskbanker

flopsy1973 wrote: »

Thanks for that yes now I'd seen that my mistake was so obvious. But the other thing that your calculations alerted me to was the fact that the first batch at 1.46 originally was 6186 shares which cost me 9000 approx. I bed and breakfast some of those shares some time later into isa which left me with the balance of 4295 . So will that make a difference to these calculations?

Not if you sold them before acquiring any of the others, but if you'd already acquired some of the later batches then it wouldn't have been valid to treat that sale as if it was taken only from the first batch, as explained by bowlhead99 a few posts back, so that would then affect your current average price.

flopsy1973

Just checked sold 1891 of them in march 15 and maturity date of 2811 others was Oct 15 so I should be OK. So I plan to sell the required amount tomorrow to use this year's cgt allowance and then the rest will be sold when the takeover is finalised. ?

Vortigern

flopsy1973 wrote: »

But the other thing that your calculations alerted me to was the fact that the first batch at 1.46 originally was 6186 shares which cost me 9000 approx. I bed and breakfast some of those shares some time later into isa which left me with the balance of 4295 . So will that make a difference to these calculations?

It might make a difference depending on the chronological order of purchases and sales (The Bed & ISA is a sale)

I'd noticed that your purchases were mostly in batches of just under £9000 each time and given that you mentioned sharesave I wonder if you've used four consecutive three-year savings plans at £250 per month?

If so, you might have had one plan mature recently, one 3 years ago, another 3 years before that and your first a further 3 years back. You might have had a sharesave maturity purchase in 2009 and every 3 years since?

If you sold 1891 shares in 2015 they would be considered to be from the pool of shares you bought in 2009, 2012 and possibly those from 2015.

We can't confirm your current pool average price without knowing the exact chronological order of purchases and sales. I'm going to be offline for a few days so unfortunately I can't do the calculation for you.

It might be better to sell too many shares rather than too few; this will avoid leaving any of this year's CGT allowance unused.