Very difficult situation regarding grandmother's will

Sea_Shell

What a strange situation to find yourself in. I'm sorry I can't offer advise, just curious.

So could it have been the case (if you'd known at the time) that the eldest, whilst still under 25 could have applied to the trustees for unlimited funds from the trust, and if they'd agreed, been given access to the whole lot??? - Which is essentially what you think the youngest might now do.

Be interesting to see the full terms of the trust as you say.

gll5dm

Sea_Shell wrote: »

What a strange situation to find yourself in. I'm sorry I can't offer advise, just curious.

So could it have been the case (if you'd known at the time) that the eldest, whilst still under 25 could have applied to the trustees for unlimited funds from the trust, and if they'd agreed, been given access to the whole lot???

Be interesting to see the full terms of the trust as you say.

Typical of my family to be honest. Wouldn't be surprised (I've never seen paperwork) if my mother made a gigantic mess of it all those years ago and passed on the wrong info, but she's always insisted the old trustee explaining to her how it works with the equal share thing, etc.

Also yes. The new trustee told my mother recently along the lines of anybody can take a loan from the fund so long as it's paid back by the time the youngest turns 25 (as long as you're under 25, of course!) and it's completely open to those under 25 as and when they need it. She also said anybody (I'm assuming while under 25) could have applied to use the fund as a deposit on a house. Absolutely unreal!

It's a complete and utter kock up from top to bottom and it looks like myself and my older brother are the ones to lose out on it.

But I will do all I can to ensure the younger two do not simply drain the funds because they can.

Manxman_in_exile

gll5dm wrote: »

Wouldn't be surprised (I've never seen paperwork) if my mother made a gigantic mess of it all those years ago and passed on the wrong info, but she's always insisted the old trustee explaining to her how it works with the equal share thing, etc.

Also yes. The new trustee told my mother recently along the lines of anybody can take a loan from the fund so long as it's paid back by the time the youngest turns 25 (as long as you're under 25, of course!) and it's completely open to those under 25 as and when they need it. She also said anybody (I'm assuming while under 25) could have applied to use the fund as a deposit on a house. Absolutely unreal!

Going from my own personal experience in family matters I'm afraid it may well be possible that your mother misunderstood what the original trustee explained to her or may have forgotten or otherwise was confused as to what she was told. No criticism of your mother intended - it can very easily happen.


As others have posted, you'll only know when you see the terms of the trust.


Out of curiosity, you mention a couple of times under 25s being able to borrow from the fund so long as it is repaid before the youngest attains 25. I'm a bit confused as to whether you are complaining that loans have been made but not repaid (thus depleting the fund) or that you and your siblings didn't take advantage of these terms because you weren't aware or didn't understand?


(I'm no expert in these areas so apologies to the posters on here with far more knowledge than me if this a stupid question! But I am curious.)

gll5dm

Hi, thanks for adding your thoughts!

I'll find out shortly as my mother claims to have found the will and will Skype call me to discuss it.

Anyway, yes, we were not aware of this mysterious under 25 rule so of course only ever requested money from the funds when absolutely necessary, as I wrote earlier assumedly in the knowledge that the rest of our share would be paid some time in the future. However since we're now over 25 and the rules appear to have changed or simply finally explained clearer (still unsure which) we stand to potentially lose out on thousands and thousands if the two who ARE still under 25 lay claim to every last penny in the trust, as there seems to be no rule which prevents them from only requesting X amount...

securityguy

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

The 25 years does not apply. Any of the bneficiaries of the trust entitled can demand their share at 18 despite what the trust deed says. Even so it would be difficult and expensive to force the trustees to do this.

It depends on whether it's a discretionary trust. Saunders v Vautier may not apply.

gll5dm

So, this is the will in more detail.

Just some brief info to help you understand more.

- The stepson referred to in the first pic was cut out of the will and his share given to the step-grandson
- The daughter received a lump sum upon my grandmother's death and is due no further money
- The three other grandsons are 23, 31 and 35 years old






So can anybody make out from that why the solicitor I spoke to says myself (31) and my older brother (35) are no longer able to access the trust fund? We certainly haven't received anywhere near 1/4 of the total amount that was in there, and I do not see anything in the will saying once we reach 25 we cannot make any further requests ...

Thanks for any help

securityguy

I am not a lawyer. Even if I were, I am not _your_ lawyer. That said:

5.2.5 (and other things, but this one for sure) means Saunders v Vautier does not apply.

The stuff about not being eligible to receive benefits from the trust once you turn 25 is nonsense (on my reading).

5.3.5 means you are completely screwed.

gll5dm

securityguy wrote: »

I am not a lawyer. Even if I were, I am not _your_ lawyer. That said:

5.2.5 (and other things, but this one for sure) means Saunders v Vautier does not apply.

The stuff about not being eligible to receive benefits from the trust once you turn 25 is nonsense (on my reading).

5.3.5 means you are completely screwed.

In what way completely screwed?

In as much as the solicitor has told me only those not yet 25 can still access funds for the next year and I need to hope she doesn't give them the thumbs up to completely empty the fund?

Or something else?

Having read the will and noted no reference to not being eligible once I turn 25, might it make sense for me to put in a request for funds to at least make the effort to get something out of it and not let it all go to the step-grandson?

pjcox2005

Not of much help, but out of curiosity has the fourth (estranged/removed) grandchild looked to actually take funds out?


You mention a £30k loan that has been repaid, so no money removed there, and you mention later about loans which again would need to be repaid.


At no point have you said anything about people withdrawing excessive amounts so I wonder if that gives a bit more comfort that it may not be as bad as expected.

securityguy

5.3.5 says the trustees can do what they want without concern for equality amongst the beneficiaries. With that clause in place, it's almost impossible to see what grounds you could ever have to challenge their decisions even if they gave all the money to one of you. It might have been seen to be necessary twenty years ago to ensure the trust had the tax advantages that were probably part of its intent, but it makes any argument about fairness impossible.