SIP Parking IPC Member 1st Appeal rejected

tightfellie

Advice sought..

In summary:
- PCN received for overstay
- incorrect signage
- 1st appeal lodged and rejected

I received PCN for staying beyond ticket time in Manchester City Centre. Sign said overnight parking after 6pm was £4 so I paid that into machine. However, ticket was issued for only 1.5 hours parking which I displayed. When I returned after 5 hours I had ticket issued 2.5 hours after parking. So my claim is that I paid the correct amount as per the signage.

Now I know I SHOULD have read the forum first but thought I was in a strong position with a photo of sign so I registered appeal with SIP. Unfortunately I can't remember if I told them who was the driver.

Not surprisingly appeal has been rejected. PCN now at £60 rising to £100 after 14 days.

Reading the forum regarding IPC it would appear pointless to appeal to the IPC. Also the IPC posts seem to all end up in court. Much as a I like a fight this wouldn't be worth £60 to me.

So my questions are:
- do I have any chance of getting winning without going to court?
- is there any point in sending the IPC member letter after I have already appealed?

Note I did have a success with POPLA in 2014 but seems like things have got tougher!

Redx

this isnt POPLA as the PPC is an IPC member

NO

and NO

in answer to your points

post #3 of the NEWBIES sticky thread explains all of this which you have already read so your question is strange considering you have already read those answers

tightfellie

Thanks for the advice Redx.

I must admit I'm still confused after reading the NEWBIES thread. Despite all the information it would seem that for PCNs from IPC members there are only 2 choices - pay up or build your court case and be prepared to see it through (or hope the PPC doesn't bother). But if as in my case you have an option to pay £35 if paid within 24 hours then against the potential £250 loss in court then to take it all the way you would either be on a mission to beat the parking companies or be a big gambler as its comparable to a bet of 1/7 (odds on).

So while its great to have all this advice is there any point fighting an IPC member at all?

I have now also checked the BMPA site for SIP Parking Ltd. The figures for 2017 are 166 hearings for 4039 tickets. Now that initially sounds like reasonable odds of 25/1 but maybe that is 96% paid the charge and the 4% that didn't ended up in court. I will ask them unless anyone else knows.

Does anybody have any statistics of success rate in court against PPCs?

pappa_golf

a photo of the sign , and a copy of your timed ticket showing money paid would help you

Coupon-mad

But if as in my case you have an option to pay £35 if paid within 24 hours then against the potential £250 loss in court then to take it all the way you would either be on a mission to beat the parking companies or be a big gambler as its comparable to a bet of 1/7 (odds on).

The odds you seem to be unaware of, are that we win 99% of small claims defence cases (every Gladstones case in a year).

It is not an option in my book, for a quiet life, to pay this scam and support and sponsor the business model. I would not be proud of funding the next PCN against a little old lady of hard-up family.

Nothing like 96% of private PCNs are paid, it is nowhere near that figure and we've seen off SIP/Gladstones claims loads of times.

Bigjon1001

Hi tightfellie,

I received a FCN or PCN from a PPC that is a member of the IPC.
I am forcing them to take me to court as an appeal to the iPC is not "independent".
SIP use Gladstone solicitors to represent them, and the IPC use gladstone solicitors as their "independent" adjudicators lol. Added to this is the fact that the IPC is a trading style of United Trade and Industry Ltd, and if you check with companies house, a named director of UTI Ltd is Mr John Llewelyn (wait for it..............) GLADSTONE Davies. He is (wait for it...............), a solicitor(surprise surprise).
However for business purposes he is using the Davies part of his surname and for that reason this is something which appears to get overlooked.
So I decided it was not worth appealing to them
As pappa golf says if you have a photo of the sign and you have your ticket showing the amount you paid, you can prove the sign contained 'false or misleading' information.
As coupon suggests, do not pay the PCN. Fight your case!.

tightfellie

thanks for the advice. I am seriously considering fighting.

I have a picture of the sign but lost (aagghh) the ticket. However, the PCN indicates an expiry time of 20:18 which is evidence there was a ticket and also that the PCN is inconsistent with the sign.

Bigjon - where are you at the process. Has it got to court yet? What sort of notice do you get? I read 14 days. I travel quite a bit with my job and I don't want to be out of the country when papers arrive that I need to respond to. And I need to be available for the court hearing.

Bigjon1001

Hi, I haven't been to court yet. I am making it as difficult as I can. I have just issued them with a section 10 notice (DPA). I am waiting for the claim forms to arrive any day now lol.
Sorry I can't be more help yet, but don't give in!.