Excel claim from county court business centre

Mikellmacoll

I've been working away for 6 months and have arrived home today to an opened letter forwarded from my previous address (moved Nov 2013) contains a claim from from Northampton county court business centre pertaining to a PCN issued on 1/5/2011 at media city in Salford.

The issue date is 20/4/2017

It's a claim for £100 but with all other costs interest it amounts now to £272.62.

I vaguely remember the ticket and remember it being on a car park I used often that you didn't have to pay until one day Excel have some durastiction over it and I got the ticket. The change from free parking to paid was not clearly signposted and I remember disputing it but then getting a load of letters from debt collectors that I ignored. They stopped coming we moved and now this is the first I've heard of it.

What should I do next?

System

What should I do next?

Acknowledge the claim online then come back

Lamilad

The issue date is 20/4/2017... PCN issued on 1/5/2011 at media city in Salford.

Isn't this 'statute barred' ? Or will they get away with it due to the issue date on the court papers?

OP - read the NEWBIES sticky thread at the top of page 1, post #2 'small claim'

The_Deep

Is there a solicitor involved? If so a complaint to the SRA might cause them a bit of bother explaining why this has gone to the wire,


It would almost seems as they their client was tryng for a default judgement..

Mikellmacoll

Thanks I will acknowledge the claim which box should I tick

Defend all of this claim
Or
Contest jurisdiction

There is a solicitor it's BW legal, 91 kirkstall road Leeds

Loadsofchildren123

They are in time - but only by 10 days. How annoying, but there it is.


Had you told them you'd moved?


There is a real issue with this sort of thing - people get CCJs without knowing about it because they've moved and didn't think they needed to tell the PPC and the PPC has no obligation to make a new check to see if the RK's address has changed.


Say you are defending, then spend a couple of days reading the newbies thread and as much as you can on this forum and also Parking Prankster's blog, so you get an idea of what your defence will be. Then come back here with a draft defence for some help/advice.


Because this was pre-POFA they cannot pursue you as RK but only as driver. So you need to say you weren't driving and to produce some evidence that someone else may have been driving to stop any inference that you were (eg more than one insured, car shared by family etc). It is not up to you to rebut a presumption that you were driving - there is no such presumption (although BW will say there is and quote Elliott v Loake, which is just wrong) - but a judge is entitled to find that you were, on the balance of probabilities, and so you either need to produce some evidence you weren't, or risk that finding.


You don't just defend on not being the driver, but also the points you already have re inadequate signage etc.

Mikellmacoll

So I've followed your advice and to be honest having read the newbies posts and various other defences I'm finding it all a bit daunting.

I didn't tell anyone I'd moved because while I was in the previous address all I remember getting was aggressive debt collection letters that I ignored and have subsequently put in the bit. So there wasn't anyone to tell as I didn't trust these automated letter anyway.

Because it is so long ago I cannot remember what if anything I responded with in the first place. I look through all the defences people have laid out on here and I just don't think I have enough to fight. Yes I may be able to use the me not driving defence as my wife was insured but I'm not sure if when I wrote to complain about inadequate signage that I'm may have inadvertently admitted I was the driver. I don't have copies of anything I received or sent because I had assumed this was dead in the water until last week.

All I have is a vague memory and the court letter I've received, not to mention lack of time to formulate something worthy of a defence. I think the !!!!!!s may have got me which is gutting because despite the vague memory, deep down I know they were in the wrong. Its probably easier if I just take the hit, I'm already finding this quite stressful.

Sods!

ElParque

If you didn't tell them you were the driver, you can mount a simple defence which the clever people on here will help you compile. You can decide to keep it very simple.

I've just defended a claim in court (and won) and my PCN was from around the same time as yours. In retrospect I'd have won without going into much more of a defence than just "I wasn't driving. Prove I was". So, if it all sounds daunting, it doesn't need to be.

Don't give up at this stage because where you are now, you've got nothing to lose by continuing!

Coupon-mad

Mikellmacoll wrote: »

So I've followed your advice and to be honest having read the newbies posts and various other defences I'm finding it all a bit daunting.

I didn't tell anyone I'd moved because while I was in the previous address all I remember getting was aggressive debt collection letters that I ignored and have subsequently put in the bit. So there wasn't anyone to tell as I didn't trust these automated letter anyway.

Because it is so long ago I cannot remember what if anything I responded with in the first place. I look through all the defences people have laid out on here and I just don't think I have enough to fight. Yes I may be able to use the me not driving defence as my wife was insured but I'm not sure if when I wrote to complain about inadequate signage that I'm may have inadvertently admitted I was the driver. I don't have copies of anything I received or sent because I had assumed this was dead in the water until last week.

All I have is a vague memory and the court letter I've received, not to mention lack of time to formulate something worthy of a defence. I think the !!!!!!s may have got me which is gutting because despite the vague memory, deep down I know they were in the wrong. Its probably easier if I just take the hit, I'm already finding this quite stressful.

Sods!

This is easier than you think, being pre-POFA you defend as keeper, like this guy will:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=113397

No need to spend ages on a defence. Copy one just like yours. Search this parking board for pre-POFA Excel defence.

Even if it turns out you did appeal in 2011, how are you meant to recall? And draw confidence from the fact WE HAVE NEVER LOST ONE.

Mikellmacoll

Hi thanks for the advice and confidence. If I lose will I have to pay any more than the £272.62 on the claim form?

Also if I say I'm not the driver doesn't that make all the other defences irrelevant?

Draft defence

1. It is acknowledged that the defendant, xxx, residing at xxx is the registered keeper of the vehicle.

2. It is denied that any monies are due from the defendant to the claimant. As far as I can remember I was not the driver at the time of the alleged incident. There were 2 people insured to drive that particular car and I am certain and my wife is certain that it wasn't me driving that day.

3. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA 2012) which came into force in October 2012 is the only legislation currently available allowing a private parking firm to hold a registered keeper liable. From the limited information provided by the particulars of claim, it can be seen the date of the alleged incident is XX/XX/2011 which predates the enactment of PoFA 2012. This being the case, the claimant cannot surely hold the registered keeper liable, only the driver, of which no evidence has been produced. This distinguishes the case from Elliot vs Loake, in which there was irrefutable evidence of the drivers identity. Further, Elliot v Loake was a criminal case, which has no bearing on a civil matter, as Elliot was prosecuted for S.172, which cannot apply here.
PATAS and POPLA Lead Adjudicator and barrister, Henry Michael Greenslade, clarified that with regards to keeper liability, "There is no ‘reasonable presumption’ in law that the registered keeper of a vehicle is the driver and operators should never suggest anything of the sort" (POPLA report 2015).

4. The date of the alleged incident is XX/XX/2011 which is over 6 years ago. I only received the claim because it was passed on to me from the occupiers of my previous address after they had opened it. I have not lived at that address since Nov 2012 so any reasonable attempts to question my initial response to the PCN were not received. The fact that this has been drawn out this long is simply unacceptable.

5. Pre Nov 2012 and after my first attempt at disputing the PCN I received no acknowledgement of my dispute with the PCN from the claiment but many threatening letters from debt collection companies that were evidently generic with no direct contact to continue my dispute. I therefore decided to stop responding to them.

6. I suggest that parking companies using the small claims track as a form of aggressive, automated debt collection is not something the courts should be seen to support.

7. At the time of the alleged incident the car park in question must have been newly acquired by Excel parking as not long before the alleged incident the car park was free. When the PCN was issued there wasn't adequate signage to warn it was no longer free.

8. It is submitted that (apart from properly incurred court fees) any added legal fees/costs are simply numbers made up out of thin air, and are an attempt at double recovery by the Claimant, which would not be recoverable in the small claims court.

9. The Statutory interest is completely unreasonable because this case has been drawn out for the longest possible time gaining the most on an irrelevant fee.

10. The contractual costs are completely unreasonable as the was never any contract entered into with the claimant and defendant.

Statement of Truth: I confirm that the contents of this statement are true to the best of my knowledge and belief.


Feels rubbish but I have to submit it tomorrow and I'm too late to just pay the claim.

Thank you all for your help.

beamerguy

Mikellmacoll wrote: »

Feels rubbish but I have to submit it tomorrow and I'm too late to just pay the claim.

Thank you all for your help.

Why on Earth would you want to pay a scammer ????
Especially as it was issued in 2011, before POFA 2012

Excel don't use POFA anyway.
BWLegal will already know this

Your homework starts here about EXCEL
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=excel