Weird landlord- no agreement

swingaloo

A woman I work and her sister moved into a rented property almost a year ago and is worried as to the situation with her landlord and landlady. They are an elderly couple and it seems they are not fully aware of landlords responsibilities. She says they are very nice but haver not provided any of the things a landlord should.

They paid a deposit of one months rent and have never had a receipt for that. It was paid through the bank with 'Deposit for rental property' stated on it.

They never received a receipt for the deposit nor do they know if it has been protected.

The rent is paid through the bank each month and it states 'Rent' on the payments. They were shown the property, agreed a rent and that was it, no inventory, no tenancy agreement, nothing in writing. Someone has been to check the gas appliances, however there were no smoke alarms in the house but they have fitted some themselves.

They are quite worried that they are not secure in the property as they have nothing in writing. When they asked the landlady if she was giving them a tenancy agreement she simply said 'Oh no need for any of that love, we trust you.'

They know we rent and have been asking advice on what they should do as they don't want to upset the couple.
Ive been to see them and they are keeping the property clean and in good repair so as far as I can see its the landlord and landlady who are taking the risk or am I missing something.

Pixie5740

The information below assumes the property in question is in either England or Wales.

This couple pay rent in exchange for exclusive occupation of the property so a tenancy does exist. With nothing in writing it will be a Contractual Periodic Tenancy. All perfectly legal. However, it is a requirement under the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 (I think that's the right one) for the landlord to supply the tenant(s) with an address for the serving of notices in England or Wales. Without that address the tenant(s) can legitimately withhold rent until one is supplied.

They can check with the 3 schemes to find out if their deposit is registered with one of them. If it isn't then they might choose to keep that information under their hat for now. Without registering the deposit the landlord cannot issued a valid Section 21 notice and the tenants can sue the landlord for up to 3 times the value of the deposit.

There are gas appliances so have this couple been given a gas safety certificate? Again without a valid GSC a valid Section 21 cannot be issued. The GSC should be renewed annually. The couple should also have been given a "Right to Rent" booklet and again without this a valid Section 21 cannot be issued. Do they have a working CO alarm? The landlord is not required to provide one but in my opinion a working CO alarm is more effective than an annual check to ensure your safety.

In answer to your question it's the landlord who is taking the most risk in this situation. The tenants have plenty of aces up their sleeves if they should ever need them.

You, or they, might find G_M's Guide to Tenancies in England & Wales useful.

Davesnave

Yes, their landlord/lady are taking many risks and breaking the law. The consequences for them could be serious.

Your friends are probably more secure than they would be with a standard AST, but they may also be missing out on various protections too, like gas safety checks, for example, and guaranteed safety for their deposit.

Not behaving properly as a landlord is too serious an offence to be ignored, but the old couple need to be brought to an understanding of this in a gentle manner. I think someone will be along shortly to suggest publications they could be shown which would get the point across.

It can be sorted out if there's good will on both sides.

swingaloo

Thanks for the replies. The conversation started because I mentioned something to do with my tenancy.
They are a lovely couple of ladies, middle aged and very quiet so I suppose ideal tenants. They have had the outside painted (with permission from the landlord) and cleared the garden so are taking care of the property.

They say they landlord and his wife are lovely so I think they will be able to sort it out. Good job they are not unscrupulous tenants or this landlord could be in deep trouble.

G_M

swingaloo wrote: »

...

They paid a deposit of one months rent and have never had a receipt for that. It was paid through the bank with 'Deposit for rental property' stated on it.
Good - so proof of payment.

They never received a receipt for the deposit nor do they know if it has been protected.
No problem. They can check with each scheme themselves to see if it is protected (link below).

* if it IS, great.
* if it is NOT, they have a strong position as
a) they cannot easily be evicted
b) they can claim a penalty later if they wish of 3 times the deposit


The rent is paid through the bank each month and it states 'Rent' on the payments.
Good - so proof of payment.

They were shown the property, agreed a rent and that was it, no inventory,
This is a problem for the landlord, not the tenant

no tenancy agreement,
Yes - there IS a tenancy agreement. It is verbal, not written. So its terms are very basic - whatever was agreed ie the rent!

Was there any discussion about the length of the tenancy? (eg 6 months, 8 months)? If not, they have a Contractual Periodic Tenancy. (sometimes known as 'rolling', or 'monthly')

nothing in writing.
Noproblem
Someone has been to check the gas appliances,
Good. This needs doing every 12 months. If it is not, write to the LL to request. If still not done, report to HSE (link below)

however there were no smoke alarms in the house but they have fitted some themselves.
Good. Best to fit CO alarms too. but up to them.
Note - the lack of LL-supplied smoke alarms also means eviction is hard - any S21 notice would be invalid

They are quite worried that they are not secure in the property as they have nothing in writing.
They are secure
When they asked the landlady if she was giving them a tenancy agreement she simply said 'Oh no need for any of that love, we trust you.'
Sounds fine- what exactly are they worried will hapoen?

* Deposits: payment, protection and return

* HSE (Gas Safety Certificate rules)

G_M

Davesnave wrote: »

Yes, their landlord/lady are taking many risks and breaking the law. The consequences for them could be serious.

Your friends are probably more secure than they would be with a standard AST, but they may also be missing out on various protections too, like gas safety checks, for example, and guaranteed safety for their deposit.

Not behaving properly as a landlord is too serious an offence to be ignored, but the old couple need to be brought to an understanding of this in a gentle manner. I think someone will be along shortly to suggest publications they could be shown which would get the point across.

It can be sorted out if there's good will on both sides.

I think I disagree Dave....

The relationship works.

The LLs are happy with the informal arrangement, despite the fact, as you say, that the LLs themselves are the ones most at risk.

There are distinct advantages for the tenants (increased security of tenure, potential to claim deposit penalty in future if they so wish).

Yes, there are some disadvantages for the tenants, but these are easily managed. The key ones are safety -related:
* no smoke alarms - but this has been easily and cheaply remedied
* possibly no gas safety report - though " Someone has been to check the gas appliances" so perhaps there is. And if there isn't, it's easy to have a word with these kind friendly souls and get one arranged.

Why rock the boat by getting legalistic when things seem to be working, and the risks to the tenants are minimal?

Davesnave

G_M wrote: »

I think I disagree Dave....

The relationship works.

Why rock the boat by getting legalistic when things seem to be working, and the risks to the tenants are minimal?

This relationship works (and I missed the gas safety check ) so I suppose it might continue fine without harming anyone, but I was thinking of the old folks long-term interests too.

I didn't think things would all change overnight, but if the current tenants like the couple, they could work towards a better understanding of what ought to happen, assuming there's a lack of knowledge.

After all, knowing what one should be doing and choosing not to do it is still better than not knowing and relying on luck.

moneyistooshorttomention

I'd agree with G-M here = let sleeping dogs lie.

If it ain't broke - don't fix it.