thanks for all comments

sangie595

sockpuppet wrote: »

I dont 'rely' on the bonus. I was quite happy on my initial terms/salary
But when my working hours have been doubled, My job role increased three fold, and had no pay rise for nine years and now not even the bonus
I think we have reason to feel aggrieved?
I just wanted advice re contractual obligations, not neccesarily whether they pay the bonus but whether they should have fulfilled their obligations (as i have to with staff below me) to monitor performance (give the opportunity for us to be made aware if they are hinting our performance not up to scratch, or trying to get out of paying it anyway)
My salary not changing as opposed to my hours increasing means we are not even earning the minimum wage!
I dont want the union to step in as a new member, but we will have access to legal advice to assist us and there will prob (looking at how things are going) be new issues in the future that they may be able to assist in

I rather think you are missing the point. What you were happy with nine years ago is irrelevant. If there is a job out there with the same or better money, fewer hours, and less work to do, then have at it! That isn't an unusual situation for people to be in. If your employer isn't valuing your presence - remove it to a place where it will be.

And much as I agree that you should be in a union, if you are joining to get a magic wand, don't bother. Your manager is operating legal and within the terms of the contract - it's a discretionary bonus. If you want to start insisting on appraisals, just be careful what you wish for - please be aware that employment tribunals default position on performance related dismissals is that the employers view of adequate performance is the only one that matters. They won't overrule it. Provided a performance related dismissal is done according to a legally fair process, they have no interest in the outcome, and you stay dismissed! Unions can't change the law. And that means that if an employer operates lawfully then they cannot make them do something they don't want to. Because unions usually end up on the receiving end of "the union was useless" as the next stage in the complaint. If, as this is, something is lawful, the union members have only two choices - accept it or take industrial action.

lovinituk

sockpuppet wrote: »

My salary not changing as opposed to my hours increasing means we are not even earning the minimum wage!

Sounds like you're focussing on the wrong thing. They can probably get away with not paying the bonus but they can't get away with paying less than minimum wage.

lovinituk

sockpuppet wrote: »

Yes thats the point... they may not pay the bonus but we must be able to put up some kind of fight surely. I thought that was the point of contracts of employment.

Holidays, living wage etc i thought was a statutory right

But you're mixing two things up. The bonus is one thing and they can probably choose not to pay it. The minimum wage is something else and your base salary should equate to at least minimum wage.

The guidance says your first port of call is discussing it with your employer. Then there are next steps if that fails - https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage/worker-disputes-over-minimum-wage

sangie595

sockpuppet wrote: »

Yes thats the point... they may not pay the bonus but we must be able to put up some kind of fight surely. I thought that was the point of contracts of employment.

Holidays, living wage etc i thought was a statutory right

I will lay bets on it.... you are working the additional hours voluntarily. In which case the living wage does not apply. It only applies to the contractual hours and any obligatory overtime. The view of the law is that you can walk out at "home time" and if you don't that's your issue to deal with. So yes, they can get away with paying less than the living wage.

And if you are all going to down tools and work to rule, then you may as well join the union because a work to rule is your right - and also is industrial action!

It isn't true that employees have no rights, but they do have fewer than they used to have, it is getting worse, and it's never going to be getting a lot better. It's an employers world. Of course it is. That's how capitalism works! To put it in a very old fashioned way, but it is still absolutely true, the only power that workers have lies in the withdrawal of their labour. They have nothing else the employer needs. That is the basis upon which our trades union movement was formed. It is still the ultimate weapon of the union. Employers operate for their own advantage, not that of their employees; and their view of any benefit employees get is that it is the price they must pay to get the labour. Nothing more. Yes, there are a few employers who don't think making shed loads of money is important, and want their workers to have the same benefits they do. If you find one, let us know - because they are few and far between.

getmore4less

you are focusing on the wrong thing the money because you think that might be easy.

it's the other things t hat need controlling, as a group of 4 you need to act together and push back.

if you are easy to replace then that may be what happens but just doing more and more hours won't solve your problems they will just get worse.
you need to manage expectations better as team.

fixing pay will not change the real issues.

getmore4less

sockpuppet wrote: »

So even when you are 'off' - after a 17 or 18 hour day you still get no rest!! (I dont answer, but it wakes everyone up!)

turn the ringer off

sangie595

sockpuppet wrote: »

Oh well, thanks anyway everyone.
Looks like we have no options then... carry on the job search...
Though I would point out we are not doing the overtime voluntarily, they have changed our job title and incorporated three job roles into one - there are four of us trying to do six full time job roles. There are no basic hours but it is not physically possible to do the job within the original stated 48 hours. Even when we are not working or on call they are calling - at 2am, midnight whenever. So even when you are 'off' - after a 17 or 18 hour day you still get no rest!! (I dont answer, but it wakes everyone up!)

You fail to appreciate the definition of voluntary. When you have finished the working day you walk out and you don't answer the phone. If you don't refuse then you are volunteering. Compulsory is when the employer tells you that you must work the hours, or you must answer the phone when they ring, and you have no choice to say no. In that case the employer must pay the living wage across all the hours worked.

sockpuppet

That is the case though. They have told us we have to do them

lovinituk

sockpuppet wrote: »

That is the case though. They have told us we have to do them

Then follow the guidance I linked to above!

Undervalued

sockpuppet wrote: »

I have worked for a company for nine years and my contract clearly states my starting salary (still the same now as no pay rises since i started!!!) and an annual bonus of up to £3000 based on performance appraisals.
I have never had an appraisal in nine years (nor has anyone) and the full bonus has been paid every year for nine years - and yearly before i started - with no performance assessment, mention of company performance etc. Just the full amount paid every April.

This year the new MD has not paid it, refuses to discuss it.
What is the legal stand point on this?
I have requested an explanation regards the reason (as have other employees also) but would appreciate anyones knowledge on this?

No mention has been made of the last year of any changes to the bonus, this has come out of the blue!
Everyone had 'put up' with the fact there had been no pay rises in years - since before i started - as this bonus was always paid and so bulked up the salary so there are now lot of disgruntled staff!!

Does your salary, excluding any bonus, at least equal the national minimum wage for your contracted hours?