EuroCarPark POPLA appeal - please help

Cloud0

After doing much searching now I realised my original letter to EuroCarParks was inadequate, and so was my POPLA letter. My research before took me to old forums.
My computer crashed so I was unable to save a copy and I am unable to locate what I wrote on the POPLA website which is different to EuroCP
I made an appeal on the grounds of the disability act - I am not registered as disabled, but I am due to have minor oral surgery (impacted wisdom teeth - along with the joys of the pain), I have unstable joints (referral to biomechanics - joint pain), acid reflux (medication with side effects - dizzy/muscle twitches) all which leads to a lot of sleep deprivation and brain fog - make mistakes (uploaded evidence to POPLA). I miscalculated the time and paid for 12 hours, an extra 20p and I would have saved the trouble of them trying to serve me a parking charge notice of £100. But the worse of it all was I had a training day for a charity, to save them money, I chose the cheap train tickets that is slower and ran over by 43 minutes (includes 2 minutes to purchase ticket) including sitting in the car for a while before driving off when I was more stable.

I am now at the stage where I have to provide comments on operator evidence, but I can't see the evidence I submitted to POPLA in EuroCP's documents.

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To EuroCP

You issued me with a parking ticket on 02/03/2017 but I believe it was unlawfully issued. I confirm that I am the keeper of this vehicle for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4, paragraph 9 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”) and I write to formally dispute the validity of this PCN. I will not be paying your demand for payment for the following reason:

The charge is disproportionate and not commercially justifiable
The amount you have charged is not based upon any commercially justifiable loss to your company or the landowner.
In this case, the £100 charge you are asking for far exceeds the cost of 50p because of an overstay where according to your records the time of vehicle entry was 07:11 and the time of exit was 19:54. I therefore feel the charge you have asked for is excessive.

Please confirm that you shall now cancel this charge. Alternatively, should you still believe that you have a valid claim, please provide me with details of the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA), their contact details and a unique POPLA appeal reference so that I may escalate my dispute to POPLA.

Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your full response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.

Yours faithfully,

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Part of Euro CP evidence to POPLA

1. Case Summary and Rule/Conditions
This location is managed by Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) technology which
takes a picture of the vehicle entering and exiting the site, these pictures are timed and
therefore the duration of the stay can be calculated. All vehicle registration numbers are then
matched against the data produced by the various means of paying for parking and a list of
registration numbers where no payment has been made or where the motorist has stayed
longer than the period paid is produced. After requesting vehicle keeper details from the
DVLA, a Notice to keeper is sent to the keepers of the vehicles on this list. As a consequence
at ANPR locations there will be no PCN issued to the windscreen neither will there be
photographic evidence of the windscreen supplied in operator evidence packs.

Any notes left on the windscreen of the vehicle by the driver will not be seen or read as the car
park is camera controlled.

Parking Charge Notice __ was issued to vehicle K***** on the 02/03/2017 at the
Bromsgrove Street - Birmingham car park for breach of terms and conditions the P&D/permit
purchased did not cover the date and time of parking Bromsgrove Street - Birmingham car park
operates an ANPR + P&D camera controlled operation with the following parking tariff applicable -
please note we do not require the pay and display ticket to be displayed at this car park

The Bromsgrove Street - Birmingham car park operates a 24 hour ANPR + P&D camera controlled
operation with the following parking tariff applicable. Please note there are ONLY 3 band tariff’s at
Bromsgrove Street – Birmingham

24 hours Pay and Display Car Park
Monday – Sunday including Bank Holidays
Up to 1 hour £0.80
Up to 12 Hours £3.00
Up to 24 hours £3.20

No Concessions for disabled badge holders


- This site operates on automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) in conjunction with various
payment options. - 6 machines / Pay By Phone
- The driver can pay by auto telephone/app/text – this will negate the issue of a pay and display
ticket and will be a “virtual” payment
- Some drivers may opt to purchase a pay and display ticket at of the 6 pay and display machines
and display their valid P&D ticket
- However – please note that as this is ANPR we will not be able to supply an image of the drivers
windscreen with either an expired P&D or no P&D
- ANPR camera’s will take an image of the vehicle on entry and exit – if the vehicle has not paid or
has not paid sufficient funds a parking charge notice will be issued once the VRM has been
matched with any/all possible payments

Any notes left on the windscreen of the vehicle by the driver will not be seen or read as the car
park is camera controlled.

An official appeal was received on the 15/03/2017 stating that the charge is disproportionate and not
commercially justifiable.
-
6. ECP response to POPLA appeal logged by _

This location is managed by Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) technology which
takes a picture of the vehicle entering and exiting the site, these pictures are timed and
therefore the duration of the stay can be calculated. All vehicle registration numbers are then
matched against the data produced by the various means of paying for parking and a list of
registration numbers where no payment has been made or where the motorist has stayed
longer than the period paid is produced. After requesting vehicle keeper details from the
DVLA, a Notice to keeper is sent to the keepers of the vehicles on this list. As a consequence
at ANPR locations there will be no PCN issued to the windscreen neither will there be
photographic evidence of the windscreen supplied in operator evidence packs.

Parking Charge Notice _ was issued to vehicle _ for breach of terms and
conditions the P&D/Permit purchased did not cover the date and time of parking at the Bromsgrove
Street - Birmingham car park. This car park operates a 24 hour ANPR + P&D operation therefore all
vehicles are required to purchase a valid ticket for the full duration of stay within the car park.

In Miss _ appeal to POPLA that she paid £3.00 to cover 12 hours of parking and did not realise
she had gone over the expiry time of her ticket.

Euro Car Parks would like to respond to the points raised with the following:

This car park is LEASED by Euro Car Parks

- Section 18.3 of the British Parking Association’s (BPA) code of practice explains that signs
“must be conspicuous and legible and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to
see, read and understand.
- Signage on site is clear, when parking on private land it is the driver’s responsibility to read
the signage displayed and parked accordance with the terms and conditions as stated.
- Euro Car Parks have provided photographic evidence showing that the appellant remained at
the site for twelve hours and forty two minutes (Figure 1)
- The signage clearly states the terms and conditions of parking, all drivers are required to
purchase a valid pay and display ticket for the duration of their stay. Euro Car Parks can
confirm that the signage on site clearly dispalys the tariff at Bromsgrove Street (Figure 2)
- The signage clearly states the rules and regulations of parking, all drivers are required to
purchcase a valid pay and display ticket payment for the duration of their stay.
- Signage is visble when entering and inside of the car park and when entering private land it
would be _ responsibilty to read the terms and conditions and adhere to them.
- Figure 3 shows the lease between ECP and the land owners.
- Euro Car Parks have erected clear and visible signage – there are three tariff bands. It is not
within the drivers remit to interpret the signage or the site tariff in the way they see fit.
- Figure 4 shows a transaction report where I can confirm that a payment of £3.00 was made
which would have entitled _ to be parked for up to 12 hours.
- Usual procedure when entering a pay and display car park is to ensure you carry sufficient
change to enable you to purchase a pay and display ticket.
- It is _ responsibility to ensure that a pay and display ticket is purchased for the
full duration of stay on site
- Euro Car Parks would like to point out that all terms and conditions of parking are clearly
displayed, this includes the charge payable should a breach of the terms and conditions
occur.
- Contract law applies
- According to BPA Code of Practise 13.4 – car park operators should allow the driver a
reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended; before
enforcement action is taken. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted; the
grace period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes. I can
confirm that Euro Car Parks have given the driver the suitable grace period of 10 minutes
- The contract (signage) clearly states the extra charges are that the driver will incur and have
to pay if they decide to break the contract terms − for example, by parking longer than the
time paid for or exceeding the maximum time limit applicable.
MB
- The contract (signage) clearly states the extra charges are that the driver will incur and have
to pay if they decide to break the contract terms − for example, by parking longer than the
time paid for or exceeding the maximum time limit applicable.
- A pay and display payment is required for the full duration of the stay on site
- The car park in question is on private land and upon entering such land vehicles are subject
to the rules and regulations of parking as shown on the signage. This signage quite clearly
states that if your vehicle is in breach of the rules and regulations of the car park then a
parking charge notice (PCN) will be issued.
- On entry to private land it is the responsibility of the driver to check for signage and ensure
that your vehicle has been correctly parked. Any vehicles found not adhering to the signage
will be issued with a parking charge notice (PCN).
- As previously advised the car park is camera controlled and any notes/ pay and display ticket
displayed on the dashboard will not be seen.
- Any form of parking ticket or ‘notice’ is issued under the law ‘of trespass and Contract Law’. A
driver who is invited (or chooses) to park on private land and use the car parking facilities and
pays a fee/s does so under a contract (signage) with the car park operator. The parking
contract sets out the terms that apply to the parking service, including the price.
- The contract (signage) clearly states the extra charges are that the driver will incur and have
to pay if they decide to break the contract terms − for example, by parking longer than the
time paid for or exceeding the maximum time limit applicable.
- With regards to the reference to “Pre-Estimate of Loss/breach of consumer contracts
1999.” Please be advised that the Supreme Court has made judgement (04/11/15) that
clearly sets out the issue of parking charge notices on private land (law of contract applies)
and in particular pre-estimate of loss. The parking charge notice is enforceable on the basis
that it protected a legitimate interest when the driver failed to adhere to the terms and
conditions and was not extravagant, exorbitant nor unconscionable. The parking charge is
not an unenforceable penalty and does not breach the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts
Regulations 1999.
- Euro Car Parks does not operate CCTV

I can confirm the signage on site is clear, it states the site is a 24 hour pay and display car park and
that charges apply 24 hours a day and drivers must have a valid pay and display.

Euro Car Parks maintains that _’s appeal should not be accepted and that the notice has
been issued correctly and should remain payable. As the pay and display ticket purchased did not
cover the full duration of stay onsite; Euro Car Parks assets that the parking charge notice was issued
correctly and should remain payable.
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They established that they are not the land owner but they leased the land and kept reiterating that the contract is from when the vehicle enters the premises and the duration from when the vehicle exits with only 10 minutes of grace period. Though there is no signage to say that monies is owed as soon as the vehicle enters the premises and from when it exits.
I am losing the will to live... any responses will be appreciated

Thank you

Fruitcake

I am not aware of a register for disabled people in this country.
The disability act has been superceded by the Equality Act 2010.
None of this helps where parking scammers, the BPA, or PoPLA are concerned.

Do you have any pictures of signs that you can use to rebut the scammers statement about signs? This is normally one of the strongest appeal points alongside keeper liability.

All you can do is rubbish each point they make one by one.

Cloud0

Thank you for responding

http /imgur.com/a/l7v3L (space as not allowed to post links)
The sign says "camera controlled" at the top.
"This car park is patrolled, failure to comply with the following may result in the issuing of £100 parking charge notice.
We are using cameras to capture images of vehicle number plates and calculate the length of stay." With some writing in red too small to read.
In point 6 they say the charge is "The contract (signage) clearly states the extra charges are that the driver will incur and have to pay if they decide to break the contract terms". - The sign says may result in the issuing of the invoice but now they say will incur a charge. No signs that states as soon as the vehicle enters the premises and exits that -that duration is the length of stay that is chargeable. Will arguing this suffice because I messed up?

Stefano123

I, too, have had an invoice from Euro Car Parks regarding the same car park. They're attempting to invoice the driver for 'overstaying' 5.68 mins. Is it worth pointing to BPA code of Practice section 13

“13.2 You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’ in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the driver is on your land without permission you should still
allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave before you take enforcement action.

13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.”

at the appeal stage or should I, as the registered keeper, simply copy and paste the standard BPA member appeal response? Given they've not honoured the minimum grace period, which is in black and white above, it would seem to me this is a way of getting the invoice cancelled without the need to go via POPLA?

Or is the advice still to send the template without edits?

KeithP

Stefano123, add a paragraph like this if you wish:

Also Clause #13 of the BPA CoP applies here and this appeal, any subsequent appeal and also any court case will have this as a prominent argument as to why this invoice should be cancelled.

Please do not respond again on this thread, but if you have further questions then start a new thread - unless of course they relate to your already existing thread.