Constructive Dismissal?

EconomicsGirl

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LMG1305

EconomicsGirl wrote: »

My husband has worked at his firm for about 17 years. It was a lovely firm to work for (roughly 500 employees) but some strange things have been going on and it looks like they are trying to get rid of people without paying redundancy.


A girl complained about the management then disappeared. There are allegations that fraud is going on, obviously no idea if its true but several staff saying it. His teammate who's been there almost 30 years was given several warnings then removed from work then a settlement agreed. My husband has just been given a verbal warning for not adding notes in his timesheets. Would guess they are trying to get rid of him without paying him off.


All looks very dodgy but what's best to do. My husband is also on anti depressants for being suicidal and is prone to getting angry so I'm worried how this will end. He's happy to take a settlement. I've sent an e-mail to their HR to let them know my husband is on meds as suicidal, don't think they will care. Asked if they could move him to a different section as he's being bullied and said looks like they are trying to get rid of him without a payout and I will be contacting employment lawyers. I said we would accept a settlement of 1 month for each year and have advised my husband to raise a grievance against his manager. May not have been my wisest move but husband is volatile and meeting is today. Any advice?

Did you really send an email like that to the HR of your husbands employer?? What proof do you have that they are actually trying to get rid of him? Is it just the warning for the timesheet notes or are there other things as well? Without any more information to go on, this just looks like an overreaction. Apologies if there have been other things directed at your OH, but on what you've said above there isn't a lot to go on.

I do have sympathy for your OH however and I hope he is getting as much help as he needs. Maybe getting out of there might be a good thing, with or without a settlement.

sangie595

LMG1305 wrote: »

Did you really send an email like that to the HR of your husbands employer?? What proof do you have that they are actually trying to get rid of him? Is it just the warning for the timesheet notes or are there other things as well? Without any more information to go on, this just looks like an overreaction. Apologies if there have been other things directed at your OH, but on what you've said above there isn't a lot to go on.

I do have sympathy for your OH however and I hope he is getting as much help as he needs. Maybe getting out of there might be a good thing, with or without a settlement.

I totally agree. Sending that email was possibly the worst thing that you could have done. For a start off, there is not a cat in hells chance of getting a settlement ( for what - a warning?????) of a month a year. What planet did you get that idea from.- you don't have a case of anything, and even if you did, no tribunal would give him that amount of cash!

And the circumstances of how you have done this? You have just handed the employer everything they need to paint you as a gold digger at a tribunal. Anything he claims from here on in will be judged through a prism of "he's only saying that because he wants this big payout". His credibility is pretty damned now.

And if there is " something going on" you have just put them on warning to box clever - it is really easy to get rid of somebody totally fairly and entirely lawfully. Threatening an employer doesn't make them back off, it paints a target on their back.

As for being prone to getting angry, just pray that he doesn't do that at work, and especially not in this meeting (I assume the grievance meeting?) - if he becomes "volatile" he may just hand them the reason to dismiss him. If someone is prone to anger then this is the worst situation you could put them in, and if he becomes abusive or aggressive, he is up the proverbial creek.

lovinituk

EconomicsGirl wrote: »

All looks very dodgy but what's best to do. My husband is also on anti depressants for being suicidal and is prone to getting angry so I'm worried how this will end. He's happy to take a settlement. I've sent an e-mail to their HR to let them know my husband is on meds as suicidal, don't think they will care. Asked if they could move him to a different section as he's being bullied and said looks like they are trying to get rid of him without a payout and I will be contacting employment lawyers. I said we would accept a settlement of 1 month for each year and have advised my husband to raise a grievance against his manager. May not have been my wisest move but husband is volatile and meeting is today. Any advice?

Why on earth are you contacting his employer with demands?! It's his job, not yours. By all means advise your husband but you can't go contacting his employer like a mother contacting a school about their child! Well you can but I fear you have already done more harm than good.

Please for your husbands sake don't contact them again!

polgara

Another thing to consider if maybe the new management are discovering all the individuals who have been 'up to no good' and dealing with them? 'People disappearing' could be dismissed for disciplinary matters and they leaving the organisation?

k3lvc

EconomicsGirl wrote: »

Any advice?

1) Recall the email in the vain hope that they've not read it
2) Focus your efforts on getting medical help for your Husband - the job can be parked until he's in a fit state - send any sick note to employer and engage with their OH team if they have one

LMG1305

EconomicsGirl wrote: »

I hope the new manager isn't trying to get rid of him, its the first thing against him but he's in a team of around 10, and since new manager took over two have disappeared in similar manners via disciplinary (one having worked there almost 30 years, works all hours and no previous issues) and the old manager was forcibly removed. People are claiming there maybe fraud or similar going on by the new management but obviously I have no idea if it is true but as soon as allegations are made people seem to disappear.

It might just be that the company have been fairly relaxed for many years (hence very enjoyable place to work), but this new manager is coming in & introducing more strict, but perfectly legal rules. Doesn't mean they are doing anything fraudulent or underhanded, but maybe the company are losing money so have had to introduce stricter measures to tighten their belts a bit.

As for any allegations, I would ignore this unless you have proof of any wrongdoing, because if they are false allegations then your OH will be seen as a trouble maker and if they are true, then the company will have no issue getting rid of your OH anyway so either way your OH won't be in a good position.

sangie595

EconomicsGirl wrote: »

I hope the new manager isn't trying to get rid of him, its the first thing against him but he's in a team of around 10, and since new manager took over two have disappeared in similar manners via disciplinary (one having worked there almost 30 years, works all hours and no previous issues) and the old manager was forcibly removed. People are claiming there maybe fraud or similar going on by the new management but obviously I have no idea if it is true but as soon as allegations are made people seem to disappear.

Has it occurred to you that making allegations of fraud etc., by the employer would certainly result in people disappearing. It's gross misconduct. Few employers are sanguine about their employees accusing them of breaking the law or committing fraud. Doing that would almost certainly result in dismissal. You don't gossip about the employers business or bring them into disrepute.

Undervalued

EconomicsGirl wrote: »

My husband has worked at his firm for about 17 years. It was a lovely firm to work for (roughly 500 employees) but some strange things have been going on and it looks like they are trying to get rid of people without paying redundancy.


A girl complained about the management then disappeared. There are allegations that fraud is going on, obviously no idea if its true but several staff saying it. His teammate who's been there almost 30 years was given several warnings then removed from work then a settlement agreed. My husband has just been given a verbal warning for not adding notes in his timesheets. Would guess they are trying to get rid of him without paying him off.


All looks very dodgy but what's best to do. My husband is also on anti depressants for being suicidal and is prone to getting angry so I'm worried how this will end. He's happy to take a settlement. I've sent an e-mail to their HR to let them know my husband is on meds as suicidal, don't think they will care. Asked if they could move him to a different section as he's being bullied and said looks like they are trying to get rid of him without a payout and I will be contacting employment lawyers. I said we would accept a settlement of 1 month for each year and have advised my husband to raise a grievance against his manager. May not have been my wisest move but husband is volatile and meeting is today. Any advice?

Well I certainly agree with the bit I have highlighted in red but little else I'm afraid!

If your husband is unwell then he should be signed off work by his doctor. Has he been? With the type of problem you describe then he would likely be off sick for some time. That might have helped towards the possibility of negotiating some kind of settlement in the medium term but sadly I suspect you have spoilt even that chance. As others have said, unless you have actual proof you do not throw those sort of allegations about. Even with proof you need to act very carefully.

tea_lover

EconomicsGirl wrote: »

He has not been signed off work by his doctor but doctor would do that. It is an option we would consider but would rather resolve the problems causing it which is largely his work. He has been on anti depressants for a year but had not told work.


I've twice had payouts of close to a month per year, one for private sector, one public sector so they do happen though admittedly its more a public sector thing. I wasn't expecting them to agree to that but I'm not having him forced out on dismissal grounds and was more a starting point. I know I'm not his mother but he was going to go in and ask for a settlement anyway today and is a suicide risk which his work need to know and someone can do that immediately. I told him about my e-mail to HR and he was very happy and he's the only person I care about. Appreciate it wasn't the wisest of moves but the guy is a bully and HR needs to act. HR have now overruled the manager and withdrawn the verbal warning which is great though I want him moved section. I'm not contacting his work anymore though have contacted a colleague to look after him. I've advised him not to get involved in the fraud allegations and haven't raised them myself as I've got no proof. His section have been making profit until last year when he believes large sums of money suddenly starting disappearing into directors private companies. I would suspect its legal though.

Oh my goodness you sent it before you'd even spoken to him? I would be beyond furious if my OH pulled a stunt like that.

k3lvc

EconomicsGirl wrote: »

He has not been signed off work by his doctor but doctor would do that. It is an option we would consider but would rather resolve the problems causing it which is largely his work. He has been on anti depressants for a year but had not told work.

Bad move in my opinion (and experience) - during this period his behaviour is likely to have changed and employer may consider this to be unexplained. Health/life more important than job but unfortunately now any sickness may be seen to be avoidance

EconomicsGirl wrote: »

I've twice had payouts of close to a month per year, one for private sector, one public sector so they do happen though admittedly its more a public sector thing.

Compromise agreements or redundancy (and if latter then voluntary or compulsory) ? - big difference between them

EconomicsGirl wrote: »

I wasn't expecting them to agree to that but I'm not having him forced out on dismissal grounds and was more a starting point. I know I'm not his mother but he was going to go in and ask for a settlement anyway today and is a suicide risk which his work need to know and someone can do that immediately. I told him about my e-mail to HR and he was very happy and he's the only person I care about. Appreciate it wasn't the wisest of moves but the guy is a bully and HR needs to act. HR have now overruled the manager and withdrawn the verbal warning which is great though I want him moved section. I'm not contacting his work anymore though have contacted a colleague to look after him. I've advised him not to get involved in the fraud allegations and haven't raised them myself as I've got no proof. His section have been making profit until last year when he believes large sums of money suddenly starting disappearing into directors private companies. I would suspect its legal though.

You're in no place to demand anything and whilst you may feel you've won the battle you can probably be fairly certain you'll lose any war. Use your efforts to help your husband medically/mentally rather than causing issues that will be remembered and brought up when the time's right