PCN from CPP at Hospital

studiousowl

Hello,

Earlier this month I received a PCN from CPP at St George's Hospital. I am a student there and have been parking on site in one of the many staff car parks for almost a year now. I did receive a PCN from them once before in March of last year which I paid.
I have been reading this forum for a while now, and although the NEWBIE thread is very helpful, I do have a few questions:

1- I am technically in the wrong as I was parked in a restricted area without a valid permit. Can I still appeal?
2- I understand that most appeals are rejected and go to POPLA. If the appeal to POPLA is lost what will the charge incurred be? At the moment, the amount due is £80 (£40 if paid within 14 days - it is currently still £40 although now on day 19). I am just worried as unfortunately the stereotype of broke student rings true here - and as much as I'd like to fight the system - I am worried that the currently barely affordable £40 may balloon up to something more unfortunate!

I'd really appreciate your help.
Thanks!

Coupon-mad

1- technically in the wrong as THE DRIVER was parked in a restricted area without a valid permit. Can I still appeal?

Yes, certainly, because that's not what the registered keeper is appealing about. The drive's name does NOT feature, nor do excuses.

2- I understand that most appeals are rejected and go to POPLA. If the appeal to POPLA is lost what will the charge incurred be? At the moment, the amount due is £80

If the registered keeper (not saying who was driving) manages to lose at POPLA we will all eat our hats and you would be told by POPLA, merely wagging a finger, that you *should* pay the £80 (no discount bribe any more). But, the keeper still does NOT have to pay because POPLA is just an exercise for an appellant and is not binding like it is on the parking industry. And - we win!

Take that leap of faith with us! I have four student (Uni and college age) children and whilst only one of them drives I would have no hesistation in telling them to appeal this - so please listen to us! We know what we are doing.

It's Liberty Printers (AR &RF Reddin) Ltd T/A Liberty Services and The Car Parking Partnership who are easy to see off at POPLA and probably will forget to serve any valid Notice to Keeper (if at all).

I assume this was a windscreen PCN?

studiousowl

Yes this was a windscreen PCN. Okay, I will appeal as advised on the Newbie thread (day 26) and let you know how it goes. Prior to a friend telling me about these private parking companies, I had no idea that I was not obliged to pay these fines. They should teach us these things in school! Thanks again for your help!

Coupon-mad

Thing is, if they taught you that in school they would have to cover so many different connotations - company, trade body, risk of being sued - and then things would change within a month!

At this point in time I can tell you this will be easy to win at POPLA.

studiousowl

Awesome - thanks!

Half_way

you should also complain to the hospital

studiousowl

hello again,

CPP have replied, writing:

Thank you for your correspondence in relation to the Parking Charge incurred on 05 April 2017 at
13:08, at XXX car park.
We are writing to advise you that your recent appeal has been referred for further information.
You have stated that you were not the driver of the vehicle at the date and time of the breach of
the terms and conditions of the car park, but you have not indicated who was.
Paragraph 8(2)(b) of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, states that the driver of
the motor vehicle is required to pay the parking charge in full. It also notes that, as the operator
does not know the driver’s name or current postal address, the registered keeper, if they were not
the driver at the time, should inform the operator of the name and current postal address of the
driver and pass the notice to them.
You are warned that if, after 29 days from the Date of Issue, the parking charge has not been
paid in full and we do not know both the name and current address of the driver, we have the right
to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge from you, the registered keeper. This warning is
given to you under paragraph 8(2)(f) of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and is
subject to our complying with the applicable conditions under schedule 4 of that Act.
This Parking Charge has been placed on hold for 14 days in order for you to provide
additional/further evidence.
If this charge has been paid and you choose to provide further evidence relating to your appeal,
please forward this to us for consideration."

Is this considered a notice to keeper or a reply to the appeal? They have also attached a few pages of legal information e.g. enforcement of the charge; protection of freedoms act and freedom liability...
At this point should I write to POPLA?

waamo

Yes write to POPLA using the templates from here. FWIW so far it's waamo 6 CPP 0 they are easy to beat at POPLA.

Post your draft appeal here before you send it though.

Redx

this appears to be a reply to the initial appeal and they are phishing for the drivers details

there does not appear to be a POPLA code

wait for the rejection and a valid popla code , then appeal to popla

or , if you get an NTK in the post in the KEEPERS name, use the template appeal once more, then wait for a popla code , then appeal to popla

Umkomaas

the motor vehicle is required to pay the parking charge in full. It also notes that, as the operator
does not know the driver’s name or current postal address, the registered keeper, if they were not
the driver at the time, should inform the operator of the name and current postal address

No it does not. This is a complete and utter misrepresentation. Check out what it really says here:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

Then complain to the DVLA that CPP are misleading you to your detriment by misrepresenting your position in the context of the PoFA 2012. Ask them what action they will be taking. Ask them to deal with this directly as you have no faith in the BPA dealing with it. In fact it is not a BPA Code of Practice issue at all; it is more fundamental than that, it is a complete misrepresentation of the law.

Lay it on really heavy. Just do it. Some PPCs have been banned for misrepresentation.

studiousowl

I have emailed the DVLA complaints team as you've advised re CPP's misrepresentation of the law and am waiting on their response.
CPP have yet to respond to my appeal also.
Thanks everyone for your help, but there has been something worrying me - I am not registered keeper of the car, my mother is. So I am just worried about getting her into trouble. Do you think I should just continue with the appeals process (there is another ticket I am appealing also). Or is it risky?