the snap general election thread

chucknorris

GreatApe wrote: »

How do they protect flats from radiant heat through the windows?

Even before this fire its someone that I had thought about. If a flat catches fire you often see a very strong flame coming out of the window and since flats are mostly identical that means just two meters above this flame is the window to the flat above. A strong enough radiant source will ignite anything flammable. Think of a magnifying glass concentrating sunlight to burn things or start a fire.

I don't know, I'm a chartered quantity surveyor, not a designer. But the issue here (from what I have seen) was that the insulation seemed quite flammable, more than you would expect it to be.

steampowered

hallmark wrote: »

Emma Dent Coad blame the Council:
"failed and betrayed by the local council"

I've now had an opportunity to read Emma Dent's comments on this in a bit more detail.

She appears to be alleging, among other things, that:
- the cladding which carried the fire was installed against the wishes of residents.
- the redevelopment of the estate has seen new houses collapse, plumbing failures, water leaking through the walls because they hadn’t fitted a waterproof membrane, ceilings collapsing because rain got through the ceiling because the cladding hadn’t been fitted.
- The council ignored countless complaints about the organisation appointed to manage the block - it seems a petition against them was signed by 90% of residents.
- The council was specifically warned about fire risk.

I don't know if all of that is true. If it is true, then it is very clear that the council are blameworthy without needing to wait for the results of a formal investigation. If it isn't true, then Emma will have egg on her face.

hallmark

steampowered wrote: »

I don't know if all of that is true. If it is true, then it is very clear that the council are blameworthy without needing to wait for the results of a formal investigation. If it isn't true, then Emma will have egg on her face.

Which she'll probably get over in all of 10 minutes. However the damage to the council & the individual members on it will already have been done.

If & when we know the facts & know who if anybody can be blamed, nobody is going to be defending those people. I imagine most of us will want to see them prosecuted to the maximum extent possible. But all of that is for when we actually know the facts.

Her comments would be bad enough if they were just somebody who should know better speculating out loud. The fact that they're politically motivated just makes them all the more disgusting. We all know she would not be saying this if it was a Labour council.

Moby

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/14/theresa-may-must-go-election-campaign Excellent article:- This arrogance, this recklessness, seems rooted in the DNA of the Conservative party. They are not like, say, the Christian Democrats of Germany and other European countries; they are more like the US Republican right. They share the same viciousness, the same sense of entitlement, the same equation of dissent with treason and lack of patriotism, the same determination to smear opponents as dangerous extremists, the same demonisation of groups lacking power – whether immigrants or benefit claimants – for political gain. Always have in mind what the Tory party is. It is the political wing of the vested interests that fund it: a way to protect their economic interests in a democratic system where everyone has the vote.

hallmark

Moby wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/14/theresa-may-must-go-election-campaign Excellent article:- This arrogance, this recklessness, seems rooted in the DNA of the Conservative party. They are not like, say, the Christian Democrats of Germany and other European countries; they are more like the US Republican right. They share the same viciousness, the same sense of entitlement, the same equation of dissent with treason and lack of patriotism, the same determination to smear opponents as dangerous extremists, the same demonisation of groups lacking power – whether immigrants or benefit claimants – for political gain. Always have in mind what the Tory party is. It is the political wing of the vested interests that fund it: a way to protect their economic interests in a democratic system where everyone has the vote.

With respect, the Guardian is so left-wing it may as well be the official Labour Twitter account. What's the point simply reproducing chunks of their articles here, everybody knows they hate the Conservatives.

If a Tory voter here endlessly posted Sun articles calling Corbyn an IRA-loving marxist lunatic it would be equally dull.

steampowered

hallmark wrote: »

Her comments would be bad enough if they were just somebody who should know better speculating out loud. The fact that they're politically motivated just makes them all the more disgusting. We all know she would not be saying this if it was a Labour council.

She is someone who has been living in that area for a long time, knows it well, and has been lobbying the council on exactly the kind of issues which seem to have contributed to this fire in that exact council estate.

I would say she is well qualified to issue public comment and to make people aware of the council's failings.

I don't have the facts to confirm whether she is right or not. But if bets were being offered, I would put my bet on Emma being correct.

Thrugelmir

steampowered wrote: »

There's no getting away from the fact that growth has been very low over the past few years (both in the UK and in Europe).

Perhaps that a reflection of the increasing influence of China and India in particular. Since the early 90's there has been a progressive shift in financial power. With the Western world suffering from an ever increasing ageing population. Which in itself is increasingly expensive to fund.

hallmark

steampowered wrote: »

She is someone who has been living in that area for a long time, knows it well, and has been lobbying the council on exactly the kind of issues which seem to have contributed to this fire in that exact council estate.

I would say she is well qualified to issue public comment and to make people aware of the council's failings.

I don't have the facts to confirm whether she is right or not. But if bets were being offered, I would put my bet on Emma being correct.

So you're saying that Corbyn should issue a full apology for blaming the Government due to not giving the Council enough money? And Lammy should likewise apologize to the contractors involved for his disgusing "corporate manslaughter" comment?

It doesn't matter where you would put your "bet". Until we know the facts these scumbag politicians should keep their vile mouths shut.

Moby

Today's Metro:- Boris Johnson slashed London’s fire services in 2014 – and told rival politician to ‘get stuffed’ Boris’s cuts – implemented in 2014 – closed 10 fire stations, with the loss of 552 firefighters’ jobs. Labour Assembly leader Andrew Dismore asked then-Mayor Boris, ‘How can cutting fire stations, cutting fire engines and cutting firefighters post not be a reduction in fire cover? You’ve lied to the people of London.’ Boris snapped, ‘Get stuffed’ – but apologised saying, ‘It just popped out.’ When the cuts were implemented in 2014, firefighters wept and embraced each other outside stations which closed – including Britain’s oldest, in Clerkenwell. Video of the clash has circulated widely on social media in the wake of today’s Grenfell Tower disaster.

steampowered

hallmark wrote: »

So you're saying that Corbyn should issue a full apology for blaming the Government due to not giving the Council enough money? And Lammy should likewise apologize to the contractors involved for his disgusing "corporate manslaughter" comment?

Local authorities have had their budget cut by around 40% since 2010. We already know that corners were cut in Grenfell tower - that the building was not properly maintained, that there was a laundry list of construction problems and that the fire alarms weren't working. Linking the two is a reasonable conclusion.

It doesn't matter where you would put your "bet". Until we know the facts these scumbag politicians should keep their vile mouths shut.

No, if there is political comment to be made, it should be made. Otherwise people don't get held to account for their failings which will simply get swept under the rug; and the same thing happens again in a few years time.