DWP commencing a DEA

Alan_Earley

Thank you for reading this and I hope someone can help my wife and I .If you want any additional information please don't hesitate to ask but I will give the basic details.
My wife was taken to court in Aug 2011 for Fraud. She had claimed widows pension although she had a relationship with me. ( she did not realise she had to tell the DWP every time she had a relationship ). The DWP wanted to recover £15523 but at court it was agreed the sum should be reduced to £7332 and payment would be made every month. This was paid every month and the amount of over £7400 paid last August but the payments were still being taken. After solicitors advice we stopped the payments and wrote a letter explaining why. The DWP is still trying to take the money , the additional £7873 ,we have been threatened by debt recovery people and have written letters which seamed to stop the contact . Now however we have been notified that a DEA ( Debt Earnings Attachment ) is being made to her employer to take money straight from her wages.
This is frustrating to say he least , in a magistrates court it was found that the lower amount was paid yet the DWP is still insists on this money.
Is this even legal. If anyone can help with advice please tell us.
Many thanks

jobbingmusician

WOW! I didn't want to just read and run, but this does sound horribly complex. The only thing I have found which might help is getting your MP involved. Have you tried this?

pmlindyloo

The first thing you need to do is to ask the DWP for a breakdown of the amount that has to be repaid.

It is possible that court costs have been added on rather than their just asking for the amount agreed by the court.

Have you got any paper work regarding what they are trying to claim back?

A court order should overrule the original amount so I suspect that they have added on court fees. May be totally wrong, of course.

IAmWales

You've two separate issues here, the outcome of the criminal prosecution and civil action taken by the DWP. Despite the criminal case only finding her liable for £7K, the DWP has found that she is still liable for the whole amount. This happens because the burden of proof is lower for civil issues than it is for criminal - beyond reasonable doubt v. balance of probabilities.

What paperwork do you have from the DWP, do you have anything that agrees they will only pursue the lower amount?

IAmWales

pmlindyloo wrote: »

A court order should overrule the original amount so I suspect that they have added on court fees. May be totally wrong, of course.

The first part is wrong. A court could find the defendant not guilty, but the DWP would still be free to claim an overpayment if they are satisfied on the balance of probabilities that money is owed.

pmlindyloo

Perhaps give this organisation a call.

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/steps/step3/Pages/Step_3_11a.aspx#

CIS

The same issue happens in council tax cases - a discount gets withdrawn and a fraud case is opened for falsely claiming the discount, say £5,000.

The case goes to court and they get found guilty of fraud in respect of £2,500. They automatically start complaining to the council that they should only pay back the £2,500.

What they don't consider is the case was never really about whether the discount should have been removed or not by the council or the amount - it was solely about whether they applied for something fraudulently. This means that court are not making any ruling over the amounts, only over the alleged fraudulent intent, and thus the council can take what ever action is needed in respect of all of the monies.

Even if it was agreed in this example that the £2,500 was fraudulently claimed and it was ordered that it should be paid back in instalments the other £2,500 is still recoverable as the council see fit.

Craig

pmlindyloo

IAmWales wrote: »

The first part is wrong. A court could find the defendant not guilty, but the DWP would still be free to claim an overpayment if they are satisfied on the balance of probabilities that money is owed.

You may be right, not my area of expertise.

This is what they say on the National Debtline link:

The DWP could take action against you in the county court to get their money back.

You will usually receive a claim form from the county court. This gives details about the debt and how much the DWP says you owe.
You can complete the ‘admission’ form if you admit the debt and want to make an offer to pay the debt in instalments.
If you want to dispute all or part of the debt, contact us for advice.
The court makes the final decision about how much you should pay towards the debt. As long as you keep to the payments that the court orders, the DWP cannot take most types of further action against you.

Just saying

CIS

The court makes the final decision about how much you should pay towards the debt. As long as you keep to the payments that the court orders, the DWP cannot take most types of further action against you.

DWP can use the county court in some cases - the same as anyone else can for debt - but with a DEA then the court action is not needed, DWP can issue the DEA directly on their own discretion, avoiding any risk the court would say no to the deductions and reducing the cost.

Craig

pmlindyloo

CIS wrote: »

DWP can use the county court in some cases - the same as anyone else can for debt - but with a DEA then the court action is not needed, DWP can issue the DEA directly on their own discretion, avoiding any risk the court would say no to the deductions and reducing the cost.

Craig

Yes, I understand this.

I believe the DEA was issued because the OP's partner stopped paying back the debt on advice of the solicitor.

Alice_Holt

I think penitent and IAmWales are correct.
The magistrates court dealt with fraud (a criminal matter).
The fact that only half of the overpayment was deemed fraudulent, does not restrict the DWP from attempting to recover the total of the o/p.

The county court would deal with debt repayments and not fraud.

There is a difference in treatment between a fraudulent DWP o/p and other DWP o/p's in options for dealing with debt.
So while a DWP o/p can be included in a DRO / bankruptcy, if it is a result of fraud then it can't be included.

The way to look at it might be that your wife had received this money when she wasn't entitled to it.
As she is earning, she is presumably able to pay back this money.
If she is not able to repay the remaining £7k she had been paid by the DWP (when she did not tell them of her change of circumstances) she would be able to include it in a DRO / bankruptcy or in a county court debt judgement, as the magistrates court declared it was not a fraudulent overpayment.