Care home fees when house is not in joint names

Land_Registry

babyblade41 wrote: »

He has no will and again if the house isn't in joint names what will happen when he does pass regarding probate etc, also the land is not registered at the land registry.

The house is probably worth 650k to 700k and he has bonds etc

Many thanks

As you already appreciate if the property is unregistered best to try and locate the original deeds now. And contemplate getting it registered.

If it is in a sole name and no will then someone would need to apply for letters of administration (probate when there is a will) through the Probate Service. Once obtained the appointed administrator could then deal with his estate whcih would include the property.

If the proeprty were to be sold then my current experience points at the fact that the buyer would want it registered first before they would proceed/complete.

Something to add to the mix whilst working through the other matters

margaretclare

I can't offer anything helpful, but isn't it amazing how many people reach later life without putting these simple matters into order. Martin's site, and others, is doing an excellent job in spreading information and - hopefully - reminding people to get things sorted before it's too late.

About 15 years ago I met a lady in the local Citizens' Advice. She was recently widowed, and like the OP's MIL, had never had to pay a bill in her life because her husband had paid them all by cheque. She was getting 'overdue' letters from the utilities and had no idea what to do.

I went straight out of there and persuaded my DH to open a joint account, just for paying bills, in case 'the worst should happen'. We went straight to his bank and did just that. Years later, it's still running like clockwork. We each fund the account at the end of every month from our own personal accounts. We use that joint account purely for the automatic payment of bills - we can't write cheques against it nor draw cash.

So simple, and yet, so many people don't do it. Did the OP's FIL not trust his wife, or did he think he was saving her the bother of dealing with bills? Either way, the time comes when it all crashes to a stop.

troubleinparadise

To try to find the deeds, dig through paperwork to see if they are possibly being held by the mortgage company who funded the mortgage.

Deeds are often held in safekeeping with them after the sum has been paid off; there might be an annual fee still being paid (a small amount) to do just that.

I found my parents' deeds that way, as my Mum had no idea where it was.

It is unusual for them to be kept at home as they are such an important document. Sometimes they are held at a solicitors if your parents had dealings with a particular firm, although having no will suggests that might not be the case.

margaretclare

Just another thought: if FIL had the type of mindset that thought it was his job to pay all bills by cheque and 'not to bother her' with them, it's highly likely that the title to the property is in his name alone.

This used to be the way that many men thought. She'd have been given 'housekeeping money' and not have been involved in bill-paying or property ownership.

Keep_pedalling

margaretclare wrote: »

About 15 years ago I met a lady in the local Citizens' Advice. She was recently widowed, and like the OP's MIL, had never had to pay a bill in her life because her husband had paid them all by cheque. She was getting 'overdue' letters from the utilities and had no idea what to do.

I went straight out of there and persuaded my DH to open a joint account, just for paying bills, in case 'the worst should happen'. We went straight to his bank and did just that. Years later, it's still running like clockwork. We each fund the account at the end of every month from our own personal accounts. We use that joint account purely for the automatic payment of bills - we can't write cheques against it nor draw cash.

So simple, and yet, so many people don't do it. Did the OP's FIL not trust his wife, or did he think he was saving her the bother of dealing with bills? Either way, the time comes when it all crashes to a stop.

I hope you have gone a couple of stages further and have up to date wills and LPAs / EPAs in place.

margaretclare

Keep_pedalling wrote: »

I hope you have gone a couple of stages further and have up to date wills and LPAs / EPAs in place.

Yes, we have all that. We had to re-do our wills on marriage (2002), had to update them following my daughter's death (2003). When we did equity release to pay off the mortgage we did the LPAs then. I've recently updated my will because one of the bequests I'd made no longer applies so I made another one.

Just been thinking - vascular dementia doesn't exactly come on overnight. Couldn't some of these things have been thought of a bit in advance?

Mojisola

babyblade41 wrote: »

I have tried time and time again to get them to do it but he is not the easiest to deal with at the best of times.

margaretclare wrote: »

Just been thinking - vascular dementia doesn't exactly come on overnight. Couldn't some of these things have been thought of a bit in advance?

Sounds like the FIL wasn't willing.

Keep_pedalling

Mojisola wrote: »

Sounds like the FIL wasn't willing.

Unfortunately control freaks seldom want to give up control, even under extreme circumstances.

marliepanda

margaretclare wrote: »

Yes, we have all that. We had to re-do our wills on marriage (2002), had to update them following my daughter's death (2003). When we did equity release to pay off the mortgage we did the LPAs then. I've recently updated my will because one of the bequests I'd made no longer applies so I made another one.

Just been thinking - vascular dementia doesn't exactly come on overnight. Couldn't some of these things have been thought of a bit in advance?

Vascular dementia can and does 'come on overnight'

The man across the road from me went from fine, to a little belligerent, checking the rod constantly, to full blow on dementia in around 5 months.

There was no clue that it was going to progress so rapidly and serverely

Savvy_Sue

margaretclare wrote: »

Just been thinking - vascular dementia doesn't exactly come on overnight. Couldn't some of these things have been thought of a bit in advance?

Mojisola wrote: »

Sounds like the FIL wasn't willing.

It's not just that, it's denial and failure to accept the problem.

I've mentioned before that FIL has no short term memory - and no reliable memory of significant events of the last 5-10 years. When I first suggested to MIL that power of attorney might be a good plan, she didn't think he'd agree to do one - he didn't recognise that there was anything wrong with him. Now, I'm not sure he'd have capacity - you'd certainly have to get him at a 'good' time, and in a 'good' time he'd probably deny there was any need to sign anything like that. Because there's nothing wrong with him, you know ... except (sometimes) he knows his memory is shot.

Fortunately, MIL's always handled the money. But they have joint accounts - and if the bank knew the situation, I believe they could reasonably freeze the accounts to protect FIL's interests ...