Complicated - mom in care-home house sold - haven't seen any will by brother- HELP

selfless1

Some background-My father died two years ago, mother went into a care home. house was sold (according to my brother the house had to be sold to pay for moms care - she was put into a care home after the funeral as she was a stroke victim) my two brothers were joint executor of my fathers will. The funeral was wholly arranged by my two brothers, with major animosity caused due to them allowing me and my sister no input into this or any other important details based around these tragic circumstances.
My oldest brother dealt and deals to this day with my mother’s (now extremely ill in a nursing home) issues day to day and also has (since my father’s death) power of attorney over her.
My other brother arranged the details of the funeral which caused even more animosity culminating in a fight at said funeral. To such an extent that it fractured the family completely. This funeral was almost two years ago and my sister does not speak to either of my brothers at all. I do not speak to the younger one and the older one rarely so.
At the time of the funeral basic details of the sale of the house were given out by my older brother without any paperwork being given, although that didn’t bother me at that time.

Most important perhaps was we had (and still don’t) have any details of the will. This caused major problems at the time and has since. There was no reading of the will 9at least for me and my sister) with the reason given (by older brother) was that it was a mirror will and my mother was still alive hence no one sees the will until she dies. It must be understood that i usually felt i had to press my older brother for information. Because my sister didn’t communicate with him i would also ask questions on her behalf also. My understanding since has been that an executer of the will has a duty to be transparent to all siblings?
me and my sister have unanswered questions that need to be answered with more than just words. And we would like help and advice to go about how we can get evidence of the truth -whatever that may be!
I must state that neither my sister nor I care about money. We are not gold-diggers, yet we have always been made to feel that we are unjust and dishonest in our attempts to establish what the facts are. IT is THIS mentality of non-transparency that has continually raised our suspicions and indeed our anger. We feel this way because regardless of what the truth is, my brothers have not been transparent, no-communicative and grudging with the information given.
We both feel we have been treated as though all of this was really none of our business which according to our information is exactly what ‘executors of the will’ have a ‘duty of care’ to exercise. I have only my (older brothers) word for the reason why he and his younger brother have fell out)
I have told the whole sad state of affairs to place everything in its proper context, but the main things me and my sister are concerned about are as follows:-

QUESTIONS
1 is my brother telling the truth when he states that ‘he hasn’t seen the will as it’s a mirror will?’
2 does the (mirror) will only get read when my mother dies? Is there any other type of will that’s gets read and is available?
3 if my brother is telling the truth how can the house be sold without the will without him having seen any will? (if so is it because as my dad is dead and my older brother had power of attorney he could act on behalf of my mom and sell the house)
4 we have been told that the house had to be sold to pay for moms care (house was in dads name at time of death) is this true even if it’s a mirror will as it has been suggested to us that that mirror wills are sometimes used in a way so siblings will be able to inherit their parents money/property?
5 why is there no actual will on the government web-site for public knowledge; is this because it’s a mirror will and my mom’s is still alive?

6 Assuming my brother have been as difficult as Ive stated in offering information has he (they) failed/ been negligent in their duty as executors of the will? And is there any recourse for me and my sister? at this late stage?

Keep_pedalling

1. Only he knows
2 & 5 Wills only get read in old films, but it won't become public until she has died and probate has been granted.
3 & 4 Presumably your father's entire estate passed to your mother, and yes your brother could sell the house using his POA to pay her care fees. Her will has no part to play in this.
6. Your mother is still alive so they are not yet executors. If your father as presumed left everything to his wife then they have done nothing wrong.

Yorkshireman99

selfless1 wrote: »

Some background-My father died two years ago, mother went into a care home. house was sold (according to my brother the house had to be sold to pay for moms care - she was put into a care home after the funeral as she was a stroke victim) my two brothers were joint executor of my fathers will. The funeral was wholly arranged by my two brothers, with major animosity caused due to them allowing me and my sister no input into this or any other important details based around these tragic circumstances.
My oldest brother dealt and deals to this day with my mother’s (now extremely ill in a nursing home) issues day to day and also has (since my father’s death) power of attorney over her.
My other brother arranged the details of the funeral which caused even more animosity culminating in a fight at said funeral. To such an extent that it fractured the family completely. This funeral was almost two years ago and my sister does not speak to either of my brothers at all. I do not speak to the younger one and the older one rarely so.
At the time of the funeral basic details of the sale of the house were given out by my older brother without any paperwork being given, although that didn’t bother me at that time.

Most important perhaps was we had (and still don’t) have any details of the will. This caused major problems at the time and has since. There was no reading of the will 9at least for me and my sister) with the reason given (by older brother) was that it was a mirror will and my mother was still alive hence no one sees the will until she dies. It must be understood that i usually felt i had to press my older brother for information. Because my sister didn’t communicate with him i would also ask questions on her behalf also. My understanding since has been that an executer of the will has a duty to be transparent to all siblings?
me and my sister have unanswered questions that need to be answered with more than just words. And we would like help and advice to go about how we can get evidence of the truth -whatever that may be!
I must state that neither my sister nor I care about money. We are not gold-diggers, yet we have always been made to feel that we are unjust and dishonest in our attempts to establish what the facts are. IT is THIS mentality of non-transparency that has continually raised our suspicions and indeed our anger. We feel this way because regardless of what the truth is, my brothers have not been transparent, no-communicative and grudging with the information given.
We both feel we have been treated as though all of this was really none of our business which according to our information is exactly what ‘executors of the will’ have a ‘duty of care’ to exercise. I have only my (older brothers) word for the reason why he and his younger brother have fell out)
I have told the whole sad state of affairs to place everything in its proper context, but the main things me and my sister are concerned about are as follows:-

QUESTIONS
1 is my brother telling the truth when he states that ‘he hasn’t seen the will as it’s a mirror will?’
2 does the (mirror) will only get read when my mother dies? Is there any other type of will that’s gets read and is available?
3 if my brother is telling the truth how can the house be sold without the will without him having seen any will? (if so is it because as my dad is dead and my older brother had power of attorney he could act on behalf of my mom and sell the house)
4 we have been told that the house had to be sold to pay for moms care (house was in dads name at time of death) is this true even if it’s a mirror will as it has been suggested to us that that mirror wills are sometimes used in a way so siblings will be able to inherit their parents money/property?
5 why is there no actual will on the government web-site for public knowledge; is this because it’s a mirror will and my mom’s is still alive?

6 Assuming my brother have been as difficult as Ive stated in offering information has he (they) failed/ been negligent in their duty as executors of the will? And is there any recourse for me and my sister? at this late stage?

Wills are only read in fiction. If the will has not been admitted to probate then it will not be on the index. A property that is part of an estate cannot be sold without first getting probate. You can check the Land Registry to see if the property is registered and who to that may provide a clue. Mirror wills usually simply mean that the two people have wills that say the same and leave things to each other.

System

You can get a copy of a will after the person has died and probate has been granted.

TBagpuss

QUESTIONS
1 is my brother telling the truth when he states that ‘he hasn’t seen the will as it’s a mirror will?’
2 does the (mirror) will only get read when my mother dies? Is there any other type of will that’s gets read and is available?
3 if my brother is telling the truth how can the house be sold without the will without him having seen any will? (if so is it because as my dad is dead and my older brother had power of attorney he could act on behalf of my mom and sell the house)
4 we have been told that the house had to be sold to pay for moms care (house was in dads name at time of death) is this true even if it’s a mirror will as it has been suggested to us that that mirror wills are sometimes used in a way so siblings will be able to inherit their parents money/property?
5 why is there no actual will on the government web-site for public knowledge; is this because it’s a mirror will and my mom’s is still alive?

6 Assuming my brother have been as difficult as Ive stated in offering information has he (they) failed/ been negligent in their duty as executors of the will? And is there any recourse for me and my sister? at this late stage?

1. Not exactly.
Your father's will would have been valid and should have been followed when he died. However, it may well have left everything to your mother, so that your brothers (and you and your sister) won't have any right to anything until after your mother dies.
So it may well be that he has misunderstood, rather than that he was lying. He may well feel that as no-one other than your mother is entitled to anything while she is alive, that it is not appropriate to share the information.

2. There is no forma 'reading' of a will. The executors have to read it in order to follow it, but if you are not a beneficiary then you don't have a right to see it, although if probate was granted you would be able to obtain a copy.

3. Do you know how your parents owned the house? If they were joint tenants then the house would pass automatically to your mother on your dad's death, and your brother would be able to deal with the sale of the house via the power of attorney. He would simply have to provide evidence of your father's death and a copy of the PoA.

6. It depends on what the will says. The most common type of mirror will is where on the first person's death everything goes to the surviving spouse, and then to the other beneficiaries once the second person dies. IF that is what your father's will says then selling the house and dealing with the assets on your mum's behalf may well be entirely correct, but without knowing what the will says there is no way to know.

If you were concerned that your brothers are not looking after your mother's affairs properly then you can contact the office of the public guardian, but this would only be appropriate if you felt they were not acting in her best interests, not if you think they are not acting in your best interests.

Keep_pedalling

Judi wrote: »

You can get a copy of a will after the person has died and probate has been granted.

Although the father's estate may never have gone through probate if the bulk of his estate was held jointly with his wife. If probate was granted it should be easy enough to find here:-

https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate