Beneficiary in a 20-year-old will

dunroving

I have just discovered that I and my brother are beneficiaries in a 20-year-old will (1995) of my aunt (mum's sister). This came out as part of a recent bereavement that started me thinking about various will-related issues (including starting the process of making my own will). I requested a copy of my father's will, as there is a property in trust that now will be sold, and also requested my aunt's will because of some strange events when she died (see below). It is the latter will that lists my brother and me as beneficiaries.

The sole executor of my aunt's will was her son. He has never contacted us. Our addresses were not listed in the will, though I know our aunt (the deceased) had our addresses.

How common is this situation, and what would be the options that we have? At the time, we didn't find out she died until well after the funeral. Her son didn't even tell her five siblings that she had died, and they were all really upset. The son had been estranged for many years from his mother until shortly before she died.

It is a rather awkward situation because I imagine Step 1 would be contacting the executor, but this is her son. I feel more upset that he didn't contact us at the time to tell us she had died, rather than about the will itself. I do feel happier that she had thought of us in her will. I lived overseas for many years and would always visit her whenever I came home, because she was my mum's sister and lived by herself.

Tuesday_Tenor

1). Someone on this board will clarify what aspects there is a 12 year rule about. I can't remember whether it's that debtors can't claim from an estate (or the executor or try to chase beneficiaries) after this time; or whether it's that an executor can't be sued for not administering the estate properly after this time. If the latter is the case, then you're way out of time to be able to do anything.

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2) Depending on (1),

A bit more info needed before making comments and suggestions:

So aunt's estate went to probate, and you obtained a copy of the will and the grant of probate from the Probate Office?

From the copy of the grant of probate you should know
- the approx value of be estate (ie. That it wasn't all wiped out by debts?)
- what was bequeathed to you and your brother (was it a specific cash sum, a specific item, or a % of the estate?)
- who the main beneficiary was (presumably her son)
- whether there were any other beneficiaries (if so, is it possible to ask them if they received their bequests?)

Then another question: Were you and your brother minors at the time of your aunts death? If so, when did you turn 18? ETA: you mention visiting her from abroad, so we can assume you were over 18.

dunroving

Tuesday_Tenor wrote: »

1). Someone on this board will clarify what aspects there is a 12 year rule about. I can't remember whether it's that debtors can't claim from an estate (or the executor or try to chase beneficiaries) after this time; or whether it's that an executor can't be sued for not administering the estate properly after this time. If the latter is the case, then you're way out of time to be able to do anything.

---

2) Depending on (1),

A bit more info needed before making comments and suggestions:

So aunt's estate went to probate, and you obtained a copy of the will and the grant of probate from the Probate Office?

From the copy of the grant of probate you should know
- the approx value of be estate (ie. That it wasn't all wiped out by debts?)
- what was bequeathed to you and your brother (was it a specific cash sum, a specific item, or a % of the estate?)
- who the main beneficiary was (presumably her son)
- whether there were any other beneficiaries (if so, is it possible to ask them if they received their bequests?)

Then another question: Were you and your brother minors at the time of your aunts death? If so, when did you turn 18? ETA: you mention visiting her from abroad, so we can assume you were over 18.

Thank you for your helpful reply.
From the will, I understand the following to be correct:

The gross value of the estate did not exceed £145k and the net value of the estate did not exceed £70k. This is the wording on the first page of the will I obtained from Probate.

First, that a cash gift of £4k should be given to my brother and me.

The will then stipulated that the cost of the funeral and all debts should be cleared. There is no reason to think that the estate was in debt as my aunt was a very frugal person who lived simply in her own house and had few visitors.

Last, that the residual value should be left to the son. His address is listed on the will, as he is an executor. I have no idea whether he lives at the same address. He never kept in touch with the family until he made up with his mum shortly before her death. Her will was made a year before she died.

I don't understand what makes families behave this way. It is unforgivable that he did not inform anyone of her death. It was only as people tried to contact her and hit a brick wall (phone disconnected, etc.) that we discovered she had died. Her siblings were angry with her son about the whole thing.

I had always assumed she had died intestate. It was only while searching for my father's 30-year-old will that it struck me to see if my aunt had left a will.

TBagpuss

I *think* (but check) that there is no limit for pursuing a trustee who has acted dishonestly or fraudulently, but the limit otherwise would be 6 years for a non-fraudulent breach of trust.

One issue may be how much your aunt's estate was worth, and whether, after paying her debts and the costs of the funeral, there was anything left.

if there was, then the specific legacies to you and your sibling should have been paid.

Were you an adult at the time your aunt died? If not, is there any possibility that the money was invested for you and your sibling, or paid to your parent on your behalf?

dunroving

TBagpuss wrote: »

I *think* (but check) that there is no limit for pursuing a trustee who has acted dishonestly or fraudulently, but the limit otherwise would be 6 years for a non-fraudulent breach of trust.

One issue may be how much your aunt's estate was worth, and whether, after paying her debts and the costs of the funeral, there was anything left.

if there was, then the specific legacies to you and your sibling should have been paid.

Were you an adult at the time your aunt died? If not, is there any possibility that the money was invested for you and your sibling, or paid to your parent on your behalf?

We were adults at the time she died (in our 30s). Given the other behaviour of the son (not notifying his mum's brothers and sisters that she had died), I can't help but feel it is a case of deliberate behaviour.

Our own parents had died 10 and 20 years earlier, respectively. My aunt was really my main existing link to my mum.

konark

To be frank, from what you say about his behaviour, i.e not telling anyone his mother had died, he's trousered the whole estate and ran.

You need to find where this guy ( the son) lives and ask him where your money is. If you get no joy next stop is the police station.If the cops aren't interested you may be able to sue him if he's got any money .

dunroving

Just a follow-up to this thread, in case anyone is interested. ;-)

I have been in touch with the solicitor who first drew up the will (they were not executors). They informed me that their records showed they sent a copy of the will to solicitor company X in London. I found Company X listed on the first page of the document I obtained via a Probate search. The document (.pdf) consisted of the will and the front page is what I assume was the probate record.

The front page (probate record) records the date of death, value of the estate, is signed and dated by the Probate Officer, and at the bottom says "Extracted by [Company X, with their address]" - it doesn't say that Company X was a solicitor, nor do I know what their role was. It doesn't even look like a company name (I assume I am not allowed to list it here), which is why I hadn't even twigged what it was referring to.

I called Company X and they said they would look into what their role was (the solicitor who wrote up the will seemed to think the executor/main beneficiary/son of the deceased probably engaged Company X to help with the legal aspects of disbursing the estate (to himself)).

So at present I am waiting to hear back from them. I don't hold out much hope though, and assume this is a situation where a dishonest person has managed to get away with not properly executing the clearly stated wishes in his mother's will.

Yorkshireman99

You can get a copy of the will for £10 here. Any company asking more are syshters.

dunroving

I already have a copy of the will, from the probate search. There's absolutely no question about the will, or whether I was a beneficiary, it's just a case of knowing what to do about it. It seems the following are my options (unless of course there is a statute of limitations that has passed, though that would be harsh considering on the face of it, there has been a deliberately fraudulent failure to contact beneficiaries and pass on the gift):
1) If Company X (solicitors listed on Probate sheet) find that they were engaged to distribute the estate, presumably they will have a responsibility to put things right.
2) Contact the sole executor/primary beneficiary to see if redress can be obtained through personal communication. (not even sure whether he still lives at the address listed on probate sheet)
3) Engage a solicitor and pursue a civil claim against the executor/primary beneficiary (probably not financially feasible considering the total amount of the cash gift was only £4,000).

Yorkshireman99

Limitations dies not apply in the case of fraud. I would stRt with the executor particularly if it is a solicitor. If you could trace the executor it would not cost much to sue him. He would also be liable to pay interest. Certainly worth a letter if you can trace him.

TBagpuss

dunroving wrote: »

I already have a copy of the will, from the probate search. There's absolutely no question about the will, or whether I was a beneficiary, it's just a case of knowing what to do about it. It seems the following are my options (unless of course there is a statute of limitations that has passed, though that would be harsh considering on the face of it, there has been a deliberately fraudulent failure to contact beneficiaries and pass on the gift):
1) If Company X (solicitors listed on Probate sheet) find that they were engaged to distribute the estate, presumably they will have a responsibility to put things right.
2) Contact the sole executor/primary beneficiary to see if redress can be obtained through personal communication. (not even sure whether he still lives at the address listed on probate sheet)
3) Engage a solicitor and pursue a civil claim against the executor/primary beneficiary (probably not financially feasible considering the total amount of the cash gift was only £4,000).

Unless company X were executors, they would have been acting on behalf of the executor and following his instructions. If he told them he would deal with distributing funds to beneficiaries they would not have any responsibility to check that he actually did so.

However, if he had legal advice at the time that may make it harder for him to claim that he made mistakes rather than deliberately defrauding the beneficiaries.

At the end of the day, however, any responsibility would be that of the executor, not his advisor. (even if they gave bad advice, you as a beneficiary would have to claim against him, and he could potentially then claim against them, although again the limitation periods would probably prevent that)