failed ESA medical because husband hasnt attempted to commit suicide!

grace68

you are not alone.

my son, for his DLA to PIP change, attended his medical, where the nurse decided he was at a very high suicide risk, so much so that she said it was her duty of care to contact his GP to get him help that afternoon. he was then give 0 points, and under every category on the report was written the line. "there is no current suicide risk!".

we won at tribunal, but the stress to get to that stage was immense and his mental health has not recovered.

grace

rockingbilly

Tolly_T wrote: »

This is said so often but I don't agree. How can an assessor for ESA or PIP give a report into how patients cope with life if they haven't witnessed them on a daily basis? I'd trust a report from a GP who has known the patient for many years and probably spoken to them many times about the problems that they have over and above an assessor or an OT who is only likely to meet them briefly to conduct an assessment.

With mental health problems trust has to come into it. My GP does ask about several things that would be relevant to PIP when she's assessing me. There are signs specific to me and how depression affects me and my GP has got to know me over many years and knows these signs. There isn't a blood test to confirm that I am suffering with depression and other mental illnesses, the diagnoses were based on what I told my GP or psychiatrist. My GP, or previously my psychiatrist, could write a very good report supporting me but it would still based on what I told them in the first place. This is true for many physical problems too, particularly where pain causes the difficulty - no-one else can experience that pain so the GP has to believe what they're being told in order to try to treat it.

That is so true. A GP will automatically believe what you tell him/her to be the truth.
Given that as a starting point, there would be nothing stopping a canny patient exaggerating their problems. Also what if then a patient goes on to obtain a carrier bag of drugs every month based on a repeat prescription which they never take? I know of one individual that obtains Morphine, Gabapentin, anti psychotics, anti depressants and a whole host of other drugs every month and destroys them. He has a 'history' with the GP and a repeat prescription list that could kill a horse. He submitted the prescription list, and got a copy of his medical notes from his GP and ended up with Enhanced Care/Standard Mobility of PIP!
All based on a deception with his GP.

Londonsu

paragon909 wrote: »

One can't apologies for being a sad pathetic troll. Am not sure the OP has time to worry about a space or a joint word!

Less of the name calling, I only mentioned it as other people who may have wanted to respond would be unsure of the actual question asked, because its not a space or joint word issue its the actual meaning

dekaspace

My MH assessment is so confusing and bad, Keep getting referred back and forth between occupational therapist and GP whom eventually referred me to councelling, who at first appointment said it was waste of time as I have bad routine and diet and CPN was better, CPN told me there was nothing wrong with me and referred me to OT, who decided after what I told her things like cooking was a good thing to learn, after 2nd session cooking told me I can cook no problem, and when I talked about social anxiety told me I don't have it as I speak to her ok and was friendly to checkout assistant at supermarket so can't be anxious!

I am on ESA though.

The problem being is if doc says nothing wrong then theres no point constantly going back to get told same thing as it will cost the NHS time and money that can be spent on another person.

I have been on antidepressants when younger but I come off them due to side effects, change GP surgery and new GP refuse to prescribe them due to either local cutbacks or saying they don't believe anything wrong with me.

That means I have gaps of a year or two with nothing so when I get new GP they say I haven't been on them so don't need them.

Vicious cycle really.

Lanzarote1938

dekaspace wrote: »

My MH assessment is so confusing and bad, Keep getting referred back and forth between occupational therapist and GP whom eventually referred me to councelling, who at first appointment said it was waste of time as I have bad routine and diet and CPN was better, CPN told me there was nothing wrong with me and referred me to OT, who decided after what I told her things like cooking was a good thing to learn, after 2nd session cooking told me I can cook no problem, and when I talked about social anxiety told me I don't have it as I speak to her ok and was friendly to checkout assistant at supermarket so can't be anxious!

I am on ESA though.

The problem being is if doc says nothing wrong then theres no point constantly going back to get told same thing as it will cost the NHS time and money that can be spent on another person.

I have been on antidepressants when younger but I come off them due to side effects, change GP surgery and new GP refuse to prescribe them due to either local cutbacks or saying they don't believe anything wrong with me.

That means I have gaps of a year or two with nothing so when I get new GP they say I haven't been on them so don't need them.

Vicious cycle really.

If CPN and GP are saying there is nothing wrong with you could they be right perhaps?

WillGoodfellow

Bulldog-1979 wrote: »

Apart from having a rant (I apologise) is this Normal/Acceptable? - Is there anything i can do?

It is normal treatment that the sick and disabled are expected to tolerate nowadays. Remember this experience at the next general election.

hello007007

Tolly_T wrote: »

This makes me so angry. Many years ago lack of a psychiatrist might have been a useful indicator of the severity of a claimant's illness but not these days.

There is not enough funding for mental health services and this means they have changed how they work, at least in my area. Patients are managed far more by their GP with a referral to a psychiatrist for advice as needed but they'll be discharged back to their GP very quickly.

Inpatient treatment isn't good for patients. As a last resort it may be necessary but services acknowledge that inpatient treatment can affect patients quite badly so they won't be admitted as often as they used to be years ago. This is more likely to be the reason that he hasn't had any hospital admissions for a number of years rather than it being because his mental health has improved. Add to that the lack of funding, reduced numbers of inpatient beds etc. etc.

Another problem is that after many years of treatment for mental health problems a patient is likely to have tried many of the medications and therapies available and often will know what works and what doesn't, and possibly will have found that nothing works for them. Why would someone keep going back to a psychiatrist when they don't believe they will help?



Plenty of the assessors lie but lets assume this one didn't. Isn't it possible that they just got it wrong? DWP staff need to understand that it isn't possible to use observations during a short assessment and a few simple indicators (lack of psychiatrist, no recent suicide attempt) to assess the impact that a mental illness has on a claimant. They need to go back to trusting GP reports and to a certain extent trusting what the claimant says. The current system isn't working. I realise trusting what a claimant says is frowned on because of the potential for fraudulent claims but when someone has a long history of mental illness along with being sectioned it's less likely that the claimant will have no problems. Mental health treatment isn't that good for such severe illnesses and problems are likely to remain, varying in severity over time, rather than completely disappear after treatment.

I'm sorry I don't have any advice. It does seem to be normal but it shouldn't be accepted. Hopefully it will all be sorted out with the current claim. I'd encourage you to let your MP know the problems that you've had. I'm sure they're aware of the problems but it makes it real when they meet people who have been directly affected.

Well said :T

dekaspace

Lanzarote1938 wrote: »

If CPN and GP are saying there is nothing wrong with you could they be right perhaps?

Both my current ones just asked a few questions like "do you feel like self harm or suicide" I said no (but have woe is me moments and wishing I could stop it) can I get out of bed, can I leave the house, and though I say I can sleep up to 18 hours or not leave house for a week it was "well you can't be depressed then its just bad routine"

Back 18 years ago I was told I DID have depression by multiple doctors, a few years ago I was told I didn't have depression but severe anxiety by a few doctors, but others say nope based on a few generic questions and when my MH issues first happened I used to stand on bridge and wish I can jump off it, once or twice I tried climing onto it but wasn't strong enough.

In fact the councillor didn't actually say I wasn't depressed as much as she couldn't help as I needed CBT and a CPN, so she said I needed a CPN so each passes me back and forth.

Even at my ESA assessment the notes said I was sweating heavily and obviously had severe anxiety and uncomfortable around people.

One psychologist told me I didn't have autism as I was clean shaven, well spoken, ironed clean clothes, 2 psychologists told me I have autism as based it on my overall life and mannerisms rather than how I looked.

And mental health problems run in my family, parents met in psychiatric ward, brother was on suicide watch after his girlfriend died, father on bi polar medication.

Bulldog-1979

Hi I just wanted to see what everyone's advice would be - should I put in for the tribunal and go against their decision? Is it worth it? will they put my husband back onto the support group or are we going to have the same problems again in 3-6mths?

System

You say he did see a psychiatrist? Do you have copies from the appointments? I had copies of all of mine and sent them in when being assessed for ESA, i ended up in the support group for 3 years usually don to the criteria of work being dmaging for my health? That was despite not attempting suicide since 2009, (still had sucidal feelings though), without prying too much (and sorry for asking) does he still have suicidal feelings? Even though he hasn;t acted upon it its still important to include as it may pave the way for support group criteria.

having a bit of a nightmare trying to get back into MH services as my MH has declined in recent years so you have my sympathy.