Rent Deposit refund issues - who is responsible?

billy_goat

Guest101 wrote: »

Why are they claiming you were a licensee? Who else lived there?

Can i get help on terminology? Licensor/Lincensee are just words to me...

Guest101

billy_goat wrote: »

Can i get help on terminology? Licensor/Lincensee are just words to me...

Sure:


Licensee is like a lodger, no real rights. (licensor is someone who grants a licence to occupy)


Tenant is slightly different.


You may still be a tenant, even if they claim otherwise, but there are certain conditions (for example university student halls) where you aren't a tenant

Use this to find out:
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/downloads_and_tools/tenancy_checker

typically these are the criteria: http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/sharing_and_subletting/excluded_occupiers

G_M

There are two issues here:

Licensor (Name and address of Licensor) AGENT NAME AND ADDRESS HERE

1) This is your landlord. This is who you write to. This is who you taken legalaction against.

2) However they are using the words 'licence' & licencee to try to avoid legal responsibilities. If you have a licence (not a tenancy) then the deposit does not have to be protected and you have fewer overall rights.

However just because they use the word 'licence' does not no mean it is a licence. You said the property was 'shared'. Who with? If you share with your landlord - yes it's a licence.

Please describe the precise arrangement in the property.

billy_goat

Guest101 wrote: »

Sure:


Licensee is like a lodger, no real rights. (licensor is someone who grants a licence to occupy)


Tenant is slightly different.


You may still be a tenant, even if they claim otherwise, but there are certain conditions (for example university student halls) where you aren't a tenant
]

Thanks for the explanation.

All 3 rooms were rented out seperately. None of the conditions for being an excluded occupier as per the Shelter links were met. (Actually when I moved out, the other 2 tenants moved out within a month as well).

@G_M

One apartment, 3 bedrooms, shared living space/toilet + kitchen. Never met the landlord - however I am certain that he did not live there (as per above, other tenants both moved out soon after me). He did however have a lot of post delivered to the address.

EDIT: to add. When I say the landlord, I am talking about the owner as per the land registry. The licensor on the lease is the letting agency. Who are a company, and definitely did not live there!!

Guest101

billy_goat wrote: »

Thanks for the explanation.

All 3 rooms were rented out seperately. None of the conditions for being an excluded occupier as per the Shelter links were met. (Actually when I moved out, the other 2 tenants moved out within a month as well).

@G_M

One apartment, 3 bedrooms, shared living space/toilet + kitchen. Never met the landlord - however I am certain that he did not live there (as per above, other tenants both moved out soon after me). He did however have a lot of post delivered to the address.

EDIT: to add. When I say the landlord, I am talking about the owner as per the land registry. The licensor on the lease is the letting agency. Who are a company, and definitely did not live there!!

Great, I just want to clarify a few things though, just so you're aware.


The person who owns the property is not always the LL (as in your case here) but a landlord could also be a tenant through a chain. e.g. I rent a house and have a landlord andi am a tenant. I then lease out room on that house, I am now a landlord and a tenant, and your contract is with me, not the owner. Just so you're aware.

billy_goat

Guest101 wrote: »

Great, I just want to clarify a few things though, just so you're aware.


The person who owns the property is not always the LL (as in your case here) but a landlord could also be a tenant through a chain. e.g. I rent a house and have a landlord andi am a tenant. I then lease out room on that house, I am now a landlord and a tenant, and your contract is with me, not the owner. Just so you're aware.

Ok thanks - I think that I get that - in this case the Company who let the property have a few places which they rent the rooms out in. The 'license' contains a clause which says that any legal correspondance should be sent to the Agents address as given in the 'lease'

Sorry for the large Copy and Paste below, this is the LBA I am planning to send, let me know if I should change/remove any of it - its a modified version of the letter on Shelters website:

Letter before action: Return of Deposit and Compensation for failure to protect my tenancy deposit in accordance with the law
I am the former tenant of XXX which you rented to me on 2nd September 2016.
The property was left in good order and the rent was fully paid to the end of my tenancy.
I am writing concerning the deposit of £900 I paid to you as a security against my obligations under the terms of my tenancy agreement.

Refund of my tenancy deposit
I wrote to the managing agents for the Property (XXXX) on 4th April to request that you refund deposit to me at the Agent’s address given in the Lease. I attach a copy of my letter. This letter was returned to sender.
To date, my deposit has not been refunded; nor has XXXX contacted me regarding this despite my reaching out by Letter (which was returned to Sender) and Email. I therefore request that, before the 30th April 2017, you pay me the amount of the deposit paid to you (£900) minus the fee specified for breaking the lease (£300) and the amount required for admin upon terminating the lease (£100) = £500.

Compensation for failure to protect my tenancy deposit
Section 213 of the Housing Act 2004 required that you protected my deposit with a government-backed scheme within 30 days of the payment of my deposit. You were also required to provide me with details of the scheme you’ve used along with certain other information.
You failed to protect my deposit with a government-backed scheme.
You failed to protect my deposit within 30 days of the payment of my deposit.
You failed to give me the necessary information about the tenancy deposit scheme you used within 30 days of the payment of my deposit.
Section 214 of the Housing Act 2004 provides that where the court is satisfied that you failed to comply with your obligations under the law relating to tenancy deposit protection it must order that you pay me one to three times the amount of the deposit paid.

Settlement
I am open to reasonable offers about compensation to settle this matter to avoid the costs of going to court.
If I do not hear from you or we are unable to come to a reasonable agreement by Sunday 30th April 2017, I will issue court proceedings in the county court without further notice.
I reserve the right to include a claim for interest on the unreturned deposit.
I will also be asking for an order to cover my costs. I will be relying on court rules for pre-action conduct that say you may have to pay more in costs if you ignore this letter.

Yours sincerely


Really appreciate the help - first time I have had to follow up on something like this (and I hope the last!)

Guest101

billy_goat wrote: »

Ok thanks - I think that I get that - in this case the Company who let the property have a few places which they rent the rooms out in. The 'license' contains a clause which says that any legal correspondance should be sent to the Agents address as given in the 'lease'

Sorry for the large Copy and Paste below, this is the LBA I am planning to send, let me know if I should change/remove any of it - its a modified version of the letter on Shelters website:

Letter before action: Return of Deposit and Compensation for failure to protect my tenancy deposit in accordance with the law
I am the former tenant of XXX which you rented to me on 2nd September 2016.
The property was left in good order and the rent was fully paid to the end of my tenancy.
I am writing concerning the deposit of £900 I paid to you as a security against my obligations under the terms of my tenancy agreement.

Refund of my tenancy deposit
I wrote to the managing agents for the Property (XXXX) on 4th April to request that you refund deposit to me at the Agent’s address given in the Lease. I attach a copy of my letter. This letter was returned to sender.
To date, my deposit has not been refunded; nor has XXXX contacted me regarding this despite my reaching out by Letter (which was returned to Sender) and Email. I therefore request that, before the 30th April 2017, you pay me the amount of the deposit paid to you (£900) minus the fee specified for breaking the lease (£300) and the amount required for admin upon terminating the lease (£100) = £500.

Compensation for failure to protect my tenancy deposit
Section 213 of the Housing Act 2004 required that you protected my deposit with a government-backed scheme within 30 days of the payment of my deposit. You were also required to provide me with details of the scheme you’ve used along with certain other information.
You failed to protect my deposit with a government-backed scheme.
You failed to protect my deposit within 30 days of the payment of my deposit.
You failed to give me the necessary information about the tenancy deposit scheme you used within 30 days of the payment of my deposit.
Section 214 of the Housing Act 2004 provides that where the court is satisfied that you failed to comply with your obligations under the law relating to tenancy deposit protection it must order that you pay me one to three times the amount of the deposit paid.

Settlement
I am open to reasonable offers about compensation to settle this matter to avoid the costs of going to court.
If I do not hear from you or we are unable to come to a reasonable agreement by Sunday 30th April 2017, I will issue court proceedings in the county court without further notice.
I reserve the right to include a claim for interest on the unreturned deposit.
I will also be asking for an order to cover my costs. I will be relying on court rules for pre-action conduct that say you may have to pay more in costs if you ignore this letter.

Yours sincerely


Really appreciate the help - first time I have had to follow up on something like this (and I hope the last!)

Actually pretty good, is that a template?

billy_goat

Guest101 wrote: »

Actually pretty good, is that a template?

Thanks (y) - yes - slightly modified version of the Shelter template (I don't think I am allowed to post links, but google "Shelter template letters - Shelter England", top result and the base was the "Court action to claim compensation"-> "Letter before action failure to return or protect deposit and claim compensation" one)

Guest101

billy_goat wrote: »

Thanks (y) - yes - slightly modified version of the Shelter template (I don't think I am allowed to post links, but google "Shelter template letters - Shelter England", top result and the base was the "Court action to claim compensation"-> "Letter before action failure to return or protect deposit and claim compensation" one)

Excellent and yes it looks fine. A LBA doesn't need to be perfect, it needs to set out the claim and what it relates to and a date by which a response is expected which yours does