Supreme Court: Parents CAN'T take kids on term-time holiday without risking a fine

tensandunits_2

Gilead wrote: »

Yes, holidays are expensive in non-term time, but a child's education is more important. No one has a right to a holiday, but everyone has a right to an education.

A week or two won't make much difference, especially if the children are young. They'd just have to do what we all did as kids, and catch up when they come back. Schools are getting very cheeky with their charges and fees. I would seriously considering home-educating mine if I had school-age children now.

SandC

I was looking at some different holiday costs and yes, all of them shoot up as soon as the school hols start. However, there's a clear craze for the all inclusive holiday I've noticed. The reasons for so many families going on them more than likely being that they end up being better value what with the cost of soft drinks, ice creams etc. outside of meal times. But the cost of AI hols increases just as much as self catering breaks. This means parents are being charged even more not just because of supply and demand and airfares, but for the food and drink too!

I do think with a little more effort into really researching what's out there and available families can avoid the higher end of the price hikes. How much food and drink do your kids actually have?

Also, is this happening every year? Or just every few years for that special trip? Again, thinking about things in advance, planning and organising can make such a big difference. My childhood holidays were not abroad every year by any means. The ones I recall most are caravan parks in Devon and Cornwall. Which by law of average does actually mean you get the best weather (such as it is in the UK) during summer holiday. We did have one hol in termtime, which was a big, special one.

You have children you should consider how much you'll need to save for holidays abroad and what type, if you want them.

It's a no win situation for head teachers, extra work monitoring attendance etc., being the bad guy for saying no, having half empty classes in June for saying yes?

So my opinion is, yes take your children out of school termtime on holiday - but not every year. Be inventive on the years you don't. Actually holiday in a place where your family will be out and about spending money in local restaurants and water parks - that way they will be having some culture, not just the AI experience. Remember both the parents and the children have years and years outside of childhood to do so much more exploring of the world.

bap98189

jamesd wrote: »

Best to solve this by widely varying the school holidays between regions so that there is no financial incentive in the holiday prices because there is no significant crowding.

Why had this never been suggested as a serious option? Scotland has different school holidays from England. Why not have different regions of England & Wales taking school holidays at different times. Obviously it will never eliminate the problem entirely, but it might go some way towards relieving it.

copperclock

The fine is ludicrous, whichever side of the argument you are on. It turns what should be a moral decision into a financial one.

There's an interesting account in (I think) one of the Freakonomics books: a nursery noticed that parents were increasingly turning up late to collect their children. It was annoying them so they decided to impose a fine system, wherein parents would be fined a small amount if they were more than a few minutes late. After some time in this system they noticed that lateness was actually increasing - parents who had previously avoided lateness for fear of embarrassment or shame now saw it as a simple financial transaction. Paying money absolved them of guilt and it became the norm.

Parents simply factor in £60-£120 per kid to the cost of their term time holiday now. They feel like everyone else is doing it so why shouldn't they.

Those of us who chose not to take their children out of school for holidays get left feeling like mugs.

Gavin83

Guest101 wrote: »

Don't the children deserve a holiday?

They can still have one, the parents should just expect to either pay a 'fine' or go when the kids aren't in school. I expect in a lot of cases the former would be cheaper so they just need to build this into their holiday costs. If they can't afford it then have a cheaper holiday but I expect in a lot of cases it's more a case of don't want to pay than can't.

I think if you waste any 'free' service then you should pay for it with some exceptions.

alinwales

copperclock wrote: »

... Paying money absolved them of guilt and it became the norm.
...

I remember that too. It's why when my kids were in nursery, the late fee was £20 per 15 mins or something crazy, to prevent it from happening (a whole day's care was £40).

So could the fine go from £60 to £600 to really stop it from happening. or will parents/councils be clogging up the courts?

martinsurrey

LKRDN_Morgan wrote: »

Do you really think if that was the case the issue of term time holidays would be such a bone of contention? It's not a very extra quid difference we're talking here. It's hundreds sometimes thousands. The difference between being able to afford the holiday and not.

You might be happy with a weeks camping in the UK or a trip to Lanzarote in the summer holidays but believe it or not that's not everyones idea of a holiday. Far away places should not be reserved for the rich. If we can only afford such destinations in term time then thats what we do. A £60 fine is not a deterrent

So why the big deal if its not a deterrent?

And unfortunately we live in a world where everyone cant have everything, children should learn that pretty early on, if life was fair there would be a AUDI in everyone's mansion driveway.

LKRDN_Morgan wrote: »

???? How bizarre!
I have nothing to move on to as I wasn't aware I was dwelling in the past? I thought I was participating in a discussion? My mistake

Enjoy camping :beer:

I more ment in general, people argue that this is unfair and crazy, but then in the same breath say its not a deterrent? everyone has a choice, if the fine is worth it, just do it.

(and I hate camping, no issue with school holiday times though)

copperclock

alinwales wrote: »

I remember that too. It's why when my kids were in nursery, the late fee was £20 per 15 mins or something crazy, to prevent it from happening (a whole day's care was £40).

So could the fine go from £60 to £600 to really stop it from happening. or will parents/councils be clogging up the courts?

Interesting question. My suspicion is that it would largely stop it happening. Most people don't have the time or money to take things to court.

In an ideal world schooling would be consistently good quality and well-funded, meaning that parents would have more faith in the system and feel less aggrieved about the rules it imposes.

But also, I see this as a problem of socialism (essentially) butting heads with capitalism. In the one corner the idea of state-run education for all and the responsibilities that that entails, in the other corner the supply-and-demand pricing structures of a free market. Parents stuck in the middle.

Red-Squirrel_2

bap98189 wrote: »

Why had this never been suggested as a serious option? Scotland has different school holidays from England. Why not have different regions of England & Wales taking school holidays at different times. Obviously it will never eliminate the problem entirely, but it might go some way towards relieving it.

I expect that holiday firms would quickly start adjusting prices based on which airport you leave from and when, if whole counties or regions had the same holidays.

Keep_pedalling

What kind of father tries to save money by taking his child out of school, but is then prepared to spend a vast amount of time and money perusing a paltry fine to the highest court in the land?