Supreme Court: Parents CAN'T take kids on term-time holiday without risking a fine

Pop_Up_Pirate

teddysmum wrote: »

I went to a girls' grammar school where the headmistress would not allow illness. My parents consulted an MP who threatened her with court action, after not following the course she wanted me to, I was not getting any college offers. A demand for 'private' reports to be disclosed showed that I was reported to have very poor attendance.....It was actually 10 days off for German Measles in 7 years at the school.


Laughably, she caught GM, her self. She had no time off but banned the school choir from the stage (she normally had the choir behind her) and made all the girls sit several metres back from the stage.


I'm not anti-teacher, as I became one and can say that in certain subjects (maths in my case), pupil absence does cause disruption.


If a child missed lessons on very simple equations, for instance, it was impossible for them to carry on with the rest of the class who were practising more complex ones.


Sometimes, the only way round this , was to give up a lunch break and tutor the child, as one could not ignore the rest of the class to concentrate on the former absentee.


I didn't mind helping a child who was off school because of illness, but would not have been happy to have to do this on a regular basis, just because a family decided to take a cheap holiday. Luckily, the latter was not the case in the schools where I worked.

What me and other posters have said is the way this used to be dealt with was to tell the pupil to copy a friends work and catch up.
Thats it.
Thats all that needs to be done.
If the child falls behind, so be it.
More often than not, missing that bit of work won't do the child any harm and the rest of the class isn't "disrupted" unless the teacher decides to disrupt them.

Pop_Up_Pirate

Caroline_a wrote: »

Slightly sideways off-topic, how does this ruling impact children who are home educated? I know a couple of kids who are/were home educated and there seemed to be very few rules about what and when they were taught. Just wondered if trips away would be classed as 'geography'?

Home school kids don't have any checks.
So basically anything that they do at home can be classed as 'educational;.

Many home school clubs will take trips out for that exact reason. They might go to Alton Towers but arrange to speak to someone about how the rides work for example.

Mum and kids might go to the seaside for the day. Educational.

Of course, with home-school kids, the education is as good or as bad as the parent makes it.

There is no set criteria with home-schooling. A parent can do whatever they like.

meer53

If parents want to take their kids out of school to go away, let them. Make it a condition that the parents have to make sure their kids catch up with any missed work, if they don't then when their kids do badly in exams it's not down to the school or the teachers. I've taken my kids out of school to go away before, they've not suffered in any way but i know not all parents are like me.

Spendless

There was nothing wrong with the way the system was prior to September 2013. The HT, could make the decision whether to authorise or not. This was someone who would know the child and their family and make a decision based on that.

Now you have 'only in exceptional circs' where different areas have defined what this means and even if you have something which to you is exceptional if it doesn't meet the written down definition you are unlikely to get it authorised.

Hence we have people who are going through Chemo, not able to take their family away once treatment finishes.

Someone couldn't take their child to watch their relative compete abroad

It also stands to reason, that we can't have swathes of Police off at the same time, or Medical staff, or Fire-Fighters etc.

Most Professions do not take annual leave en-masse. Just because schools close, it doesn't mean every working parent can be off then.

This is rarely fetched up when the subject of term-time holidays come up in the media and they just talk about the cost the holiday companies charge. IMO this is done because the Government knows they don't have an argument when it's not about price.

maman

Pop_Up_Pirate wrote: »

What me and other posters have said is the way this used to be dealt with was to tell the pupil to copy a friends work and catch up.
Thats it.
Thats all that needs to be done.
If the child falls behind, so be it.
More often than not, missing that bit of work won't do the child any harm and the rest of the class isn't "disrupted" unless the teacher decides to disrupt them.

The world of education has changed massively from the 'way it used to be'. The government would tell you that the reason for change is to raise standards and so schools are held accountable. Accountability is right and proper but it is difficult when learning is affected by things beyond the school's control which is why the change in the law tried (badly) to control attendance.


When inspectors go into schools they look at data which includes data for absence as well as data for pupil progress and exam results. If levels are lower than the government's expectation then the school is held accountable though 'name and shame' type methods of giving the school a poor inspection report with its long lasting implications for low morale, recruitment difficulties etc.


So while the child's own parent may not be bothered about them missing school, the school doesn't have that option.

Marvel1

maman wrote: »

The world of education has changed massively from the 'way it used to be'. The government would tell you that the reason for change is to raise standards and so schools are held accountable. Accountability is right and proper but it is difficult when learning is affected by things beyond the school's control which is why the change in the law tried (badly) to control attendance.


When inspectors go into schools they look at data which includes data for absence as well as data for pupil progress and exam results. If levels are lower than the government's expectation then the school is held accountable though 'name and shame' type methods of giving the school a poor inspection report with its long lasting implications for low morale, recruitment difficulties etc.


So while the child's own parent may not be bothered about them missing school, the school doesn't have that option.

No doubt the same parents when moving look at school rating and have second doubts sending them to the school.

mumps

mgdavid wrote: »

I am so tired of this argument. Nobody forced that job on him, everyone is free to choose their job and the associated conditions.

So you think doctors, nurses, firemen, police, military and anyone of hundreds of other essential jobs should only recruit people who never want a family? Well I hope you aren't a hypocrite and if you ever need help from one of these groups you refuse to accept it from anyone who has now, has ever had, or who ever plans to have children. I hope you find the help you need.

mumps

maman wrote: »

10 characters is necessary

Nice argument. Hope you don't teach debating skills.

mumps

Spendless wrote: »

There was nothing wrong with the way the system was prior to September 2013. The HT, could make the decision whether to authorise or not. This was someone who would know the child and their family and make a decision based on that.

Now you have 'only in exceptional circs' where different areas have defined what this means and even if you have something which to you is exceptional if it doesn't meet the written down definition you are unlikely to get it organised.

Hence we have people who are going through Chemo, not able to take their family away once treatment finishes.

Someone couldn't take their child to watch their relative compete abroad

It also stands to reason, that we can't have swathes of Police off at the same time, or Medical staff, or Fire-Fighters etc.

Most Professions do not take annual leave en-masse. Just because schools close, it doesn't mean every working parent can be off then.

This is rarely fetched up when the subject of term-time holidays come up in the media and they just talk about the cost the holiday companies charge. IMO this is done because the Government knows they don't have an argument when it's not about price.

Hear, hear and I wish we could return to commonsense.

System

mumps wrote: »

I am so tired of this argument. We took our kids camping every year but some years my husband didn't get leave approved during school holidays. It wasn't about money, it wasn't about going abroad, it was about spending a couple of weeks together doing things we liked.

I notice you ignored the later part of my post, which specifically addressed this point:

x-caitlin-x wrote: »

I think there should be exceptions for families who genuinely can't take annual leave during term time because their jobs don't allow it, because family time is important.