Rundles/Council tax/ Enforcement officer coming today

DeborahSt

Hello everyone,


I had a couple of council tax liabilities with Rundles, which I have been paying at £50 per week for the last 18 months or so. I knew it was due to complete in March, but wasn't sure of the date so called them on 10th March to enquire. I only owed them £3.07 at that point, so cleared it by card payment. Yippee! I know had £50 a week to divert to another debt.


Not so, they said "actually, we have two new liabilities that have come in for you" I knew nothing about this & they said the Council would have been sending me letters, it would have gone to Court & I would have had all the paperwork on that. So I suggested that as I moved house in September 2016, maybe they had sent it to the wrong address. So they said you're at 117 and the road name. Nope, I'm at 177...


So, they told me what the liabilities were, one went back to 2005 in mine and my ex partners name and the second one which was in my name only was for 339.29 which must have been the balance of the 2016 liability when I moved out (I had been paying them weekly for the current liability & only stopped when I moved out)


I said I would leave the £50 per week in place & change the reference to the smaller of the two liabilities & would get on to the council to see where they had sent all the paperwork, they said ok & agreed to send copies of paperwork to my correct address.


I received two letters (one for each liability) on 24th March.


On 10th March after I spoke to Rundles, I called the council, told them they had the address down incorrectly & asked what they related to, as it seemed odd to me that I had been paying 3 liabilities for years, that really old ones could pop up. They said 2005 liability was being paid for from my ex's disability benefit but when he was no longer in receipt of that the DWP gave it back to the council.


The second one was apparently my final balance. I asked if the council could take it back from Rundles as it seemed very unfair to me that I had not had an opportunity to resolve it without further charges being incurred, on account of them sending everything to the wrong address, and providing Rundles with the wrong address. The told me to email them & they would get back to me.


I didn't hear another word about any of it - I wasn't in a rush as such, as I was still making regular payments.


Then yesterday, I received a letter through my door "24 hours notice" Magistrates liability order removal notice.


The 339.29 is now 554.29
The other one is HUGE


I spoke to the enforcement officer at some length, explained the situation & also that I have been making regular payments, but he said at this stage they will only accept full payment.


Called the council again, who were completely nasty & said that it's with Rundles now, nothing they can do, up to them whether they accept a payment plan or not. They weren't even prepared to accept that the fact they had been sending things to the wrong address would make any difference. Apparently, as they had the 2005 liability order, I didn't need to be notified in order for them to get another for the second one.


So... back to Rundles I went, explained it all again & pointed out that I had been making payments, that they had said "ok" to my continued payments but get this... "it wasn't an official arrangement" so it doesn't count.


They confirmed that they had received £150 against the smaller of the two, but as another £75 plus yesterdays visit at £290 I still owe them £554.29


They said they couldn't do anything about it, that I was meant to call them when I had heard back from the council. I said I didn't call back because I hadn't heard anything from the council & therefore had nothing new to add. Nothing they can do then, & put me back through to the enforcement officer. He said, nope, not an official arrangement therefore doesn't count & they need the full amount, so he's coming back today. I told him I have absolutely nothing of value (which he will see for himself)
The letter says "I will return to complete my actions whether you are present or not" Can they do this? I thought they were like vampires & had to be invited in?


Their office told me that if his site assessment shows that there are not enough goods to cover the debt, they send it back to the council who will start committal proceedings against me.


If they hadn't added the visit charges on, I would have had this cleared inside a month!


Now, is there anything to gain by not letting him in? I genuinely have nothing of value. I've asked him to give me a heads up when he's coming so I can get the younger children out of the house (School holidays) but I don't know if he will.


In the meantime I'm just feeling completely sick.


Can someone please advise my best course of action?


Many thanks in advance

National_Debtline

Hi Deborah,


First of all, and most important - do not let the bailiff inside - under any circumstances. You should also hide anything valuable outside your home, like a car. You are right, they must be invited in or find open or unlocked access. Their letters can be misleading about entering when you are not there, because it fails to say if you leave the house unlocked/ open and you are not there, then we can come inside. That is designed to scare you and so is the threat of committal proceedings. You are not refusing to pay or ignoring the debt so there is no reason for this to be considered.


So, in terms of dealing with the debt I would suggest you write/ email the council with a complaint. Highlight specifically the fact that post went to the wrong address and that you have shown willingness and consistency in your payment plans and ask them to take the debt back from the bailiffs. It is discretionary but if they refuse I would suggest taking it up to the Local Government Ombudsman. If they do take the debt back the bailiffs fees will be removed.


For now the fees look correct under the legislation I am afraid. When the debt is passed to the bailiffs they add a £75 compliance fee and if the bailiff attends they can add a £235 enforcement fee. You can complain to the bailiffs as well and highlight that you were mislead about the arrangement not being formal (especially as it had been acceptable on previous accounts), ask them to remove the enforcement fee. This is at their discretion and unlikely I am afraid, but if they refuse they may be regulated by CIVEA and you could take it to them. Good luck,


Laura
@natdebtline

DeborahSt

Many thanks for your reply Laura,


I am so happy to learn that there is a higher authority than the council, I felt totally helpless, and hopeless.


I sincerely appreciate your advice. I will send a text to the enforcement officer in the first instance, explaining why I shan't be allowing him entry, and will update here as matters progress.


Thank you so much once again.

CIS

Each liability order needs to go through the whole process of billing before it can be obtained - having a liability order against someone doesn't mean other orders can be be applied for without the full process being completed (except in one very specific case which I've never seen come up in 10+ years).

The council are required only to send documents to the last known address - if they traced an address and that was the one they used in good faith then that would be sufficient. The similarity of the numbers would suggest a typo in the address entry though so it's worth chasing them for where they got the address they used - also bear in mind that the one wrong address does not invalidate the process automatically, the whole process would need to be looked at to see when and were the documents were issued (and why).

Bear in mind that the Local Government Ombudsman is only advisory on the council, it's decisions are not binding. Most councils will follow the ruling but they are not required to. You need to complete the council's complaints procedure first.

An enforcement agent can return the case to the council with the suggestion that they undertake committal proceedings but the final decision would be down to the council to make. In any case you need to exhaust the council complaints procedure first.

Craig

Herbie21

DeborahSt wrote: »

Hello everyone,

On 10th March after I spoke to Rundles, I called the council, told them they had the address down incorrectly & asked what they related to, as it seemed odd to me that I had been paying 3 liabilities for years, that really old ones could pop up. They said 2005 liability was being paid for from my ex's disability benefit but when he was no longer in receipt of that the DWP gave it back to the council.

The second one was apparently my final balance. I asked if the council could take it back from Rundles as it seemed very unfair to me that I had not had an opportunity to resolve it without further charges being incurred, on account of them sending everything to the wrong address, and providing Rundles with the wrong address. The told me to email them & they would get back to me.

I didn't hear another word about any of it - I wasn't in a rush as such, as I was still making regular payments.

Then yesterday, I received a letter through my door "24 hours notice" Magistrates liability order removal notice.

After speaking with the council on 10th March, they asked you to email them:

Did you send an email?

If you are considering taking the matter further, a lot will depend on the correspondence sent by you on 10th March.