Can I claim for time wasted on the phone etc.....

miserable_ol_so_n_so

meer53 wrote: »

If you haven't made a complaint you're going to look a bit silly. You have to give them chance to investigate fully what has happened, making an official complaint forces them to look into it and respond to you. If it's still not resolved then, you can take it to the FOS for free.

Thank you for your reply. This saga has been going on for good 3 months and I cant believe that a simple thing like this is not resolved. Yes I can now put in a complaint, wait weeks and weeks and then complain to the ombudsman etc etc. That is more letters to write, more calls for £140 refund. I have actually given them more that enough time, several warnings and deadlines. It is all on record in emails going back and forth and secure messages on the bank's website.

Stevie_Palimo

If you do go to Court you can claim all expenses plus interest to of 8% last time I checked, Now things like paper, stamps, printer ink and so on can all be added into costs together with any actual call costs as long as you have all the receipts and or invoices/bills to take with you.

miserable_ol_so_n_so

naedanger wrote: »

If your case meets the requirements for a Section 75 claim then I suggest you take that route rather than legal action. You can claim for costs and inconvenience (though there is no guarantee you will get what you claim).

One advantage of going down the section 75 route is that the credit card company can be held responsible even if the fault was due to the retailer's failings.

For details of a Section 75 claim see the following article:
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases

If you do go that route then put your complaint in writing.

Having read the Section75 details on here, I have decided to have a crack at it.
I will get onto it straight away . I will login to my account on their website and send them a secure message. I will get an acknowledgement and later a secure reply. I prefer to communicate in this way rather than actual physical letter writing. All the sent and received messages are securely stored and can be printed out anytime if needed in a court or by the ombudsman.
Please can someone clarify that this mode of communication is officially recognizsed by courts and the FCA ombudsman. The last thing I want to happen is 6 months down the line someone says "but you did not write to us did you?"

miserable_ol_so_n_so

Stevie_Palimo wrote: »

If you do go to Court you can claim all expenses plus interest to of 8% last time I checked, Now things like paper, stamps, printer ink and so on can all be added into costs together with any actual call costs as long as you have all the receipts and or invoices/bills to take with you.

Thank you for your reply. I have spent an awful lot of my time on the phone and writing. I don't have the time to waste. What if I were to engage a Personal Assistant to make all these calls and write the emails and actually paid actual invoices. Would I be able to claim these as costs? My problem is not having the spare time. I understand that I can not engage a Solicitor and claim their costs but what about paying a Personal Assistant/Secretary who would communicate with these incompetent giants of commerce and industry? ( I am referring to all the time wasted in communicating/listening to music and sound bites such as "your call is important to us" etc with them and not getting anywhere.) Time spent preparing for any Court action not included in these costs.

Stevie_Palimo

miserable_ol_so_n_so wrote: »

Thank you for your reply. I have spent an awful lot of my time on the phone and writing. I don't have the time to waste. What if I were to engage a Personal Assistant to make all these calls and write the emails and actually paid actual invoices. Would I be able to claim these as costs? My problem is not having the spare time. I understand that I can not engage a Solicitor and claim their costs but what about paying a Personal Assistant/Secretary who would communicate with these incompetent giants of commerce and industry? ( I am referring to all the time wasted in communicating with them and not getting anywhere.) Not in preparing for any Court action.

Don't quote me but being an individual and not a Company the same principle will be in place whereby the Court would say that you do not need a assistant to do this and can do it yourself, This additional cost would be classed as unnecessary and in the most likelihood be struck out as part of your claim, If you were incapable of doing these tasks then that should be a different matter.

Bear in mind it is only the true actual costs as per my post above via the Courts that could be sort.

naedanger

miserable_ol_so_n_so wrote: »

Having read the Section75 details on here, I have decided to have a crack at it.
I will get onto it straight away . I will login to my account on their website and send them a secure message. I will get an acknowledgement and later a secure reply. I prefer to communicate in this way rather than actual physical letter writing. All the sent and received messages are securely stored and can be printed out anytime if needed in a court or by the ombudsman.
Please can someone clarify that this mode of communication is officially recognizsed by courts and the FCA ombudsman.

No need for it to be a physical letter. What you need is a means of communication where the recipient is not going to dispute what is said later. (Which can happen with unrecorded conversations, not because anyone is acting in bad faith but because often there can be problems of recollection on either side.)

Secure messaging sounds fine for your purposes. (I doubt the cc provider would dispute what is in the messages later i.e. I very much doubt they will later delete them and accuse you of fabricating them).

Personally I would print and keep copies (since you have no control over how long they are kept, or if you change account you might lose access).

The last thing I want to happen is 6 months down the line someone says "but you did not write to us did you?"

This is always the risk (even with a physical letter). What you need to decide is how significant is the risk given your chosen method of communciation. My view - unrecorded conversation - high risk. Secure messaging - low risk. If you are unhappy with the risk level you could opt for a less risky method of communication.

miserable_ol_so_n_so

unholyangel wrote: »

If someone cannot manage daily affairs, they would likely have some sort of carer or someone with POA to do it for them. Legal costs are not recoverable in small claims except in very limited circumstances - such as the other parties conduct has been wholly unreasonable (simply disagreeing you have a claim against them is not unreasonable).

Even in higher courts, it used to be that costs were recoverable if they were reasonable and necessary. However since the 2013 reforms, now costs are only recoverable if they are reasonable, necessary & proportionate.

Regarding the £100 for time spent....the law expects you to spend time & effort trying to resolve disputes in a bid to avoid court action, its a natural result of any dispute and is to be expected. The general principle is that where one party is in breach, they are liable for the reasonable actual losses incurred by the other party but to go beyond that would be punishment & penal in nature (which is not what civil law is about) rather than restitution.

Could you imagine if such claims were allowed? For example say the refund has been made to the card. Should the retailer bill you for the time their employees have spent on the matter? It then becomes a question of when enough is enough. Have you spent enough time or too little/too much? No, costs for inconvenience are given a dim view by the courts and for good reason.

Thank you for your comments. I do have attorneys but both live abroad it would cost hundreds and hundreds of pounds in airfares alone.
What if I engaged a personal assistant and paid their invoices for communicating with the bank and the merchant (this is prior to any court action). Would I be able to claim these costs if the matter had to go to court?

As regards the instance where a refund had been made by the merchant and not passed on by the bank and the time spent by the merchant. Yes I would suggest that the merchant should be able to bill for their time wasted and the bank should be made to pay that.

naedanger

miserable_ol_so_n_so wrote: »

Thank you for your comments. I do have attorneys but both live abroad it would cost hundreds and hundreds of pounds in airfares alone.
What if I engaged a personal assistant and paid their invoices for communicating with the bank and the merchant (this is prior to any court action). Would I be able to claim these costs if the matter had to go to court?

As regards the instance where a refund had been made by the merchant and not passed on by the bank and the time spent by the merchant. Yes I would suggest that the merchant should be able to bill for their time wasted and the bank should be made to pay that.

Remember if you are making a section 75 claim then you can claim for your time dealing with the matter. (Not saying you will get what you claim but the rules are different from those with court action.) If the cc don't agree to your claim you can take the matter to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/distress-and-inconvenience.htm

miserable_ol_so_n_so

naedanger wrote: »

No need for it to be a physical letter. What you need is a means of communication where the recipient is not going to dispute what is said later. (Which can happen with unrecorded conversations, not because anyone is acting in bad faith but because often there can be problems of recollection on either side.)

Secure messaging sounds fine for your purposes. (I doubt the cc provider would dispute what is in the messages later i.e. I very much doubt they will later delete them and accuse you of fabricating them).

Personally I would print and keep copies (since you have no control over how long they are kept, or if you change account you might lose access).


This is always the risk (even with a physical letter). What you need to decide is how significant is the risk given your chosen method of communciation. My view - unrecorded conversation - high risk. Secure messaging - low risk. If you are unhappy with the risk level you could opt for a less risky method of communication.

I have already lodged a complaint on the Bank's website. I have full confidence in the bank that they will not do anything to delete any correspondence but I will download all the correspondence so it is available if ever needed. I am not relying on any phone calls I have made to the merchant but have written many emails to the merchant and they have replied. All these are secure in my mail box.

My real problem is with the time that has been wasted. In my old age I am getting bedeviled by such incidents. You wont believe it but I am right now also in battle with the Office of The Public guardian, no less.

Having trouble with them on two counts. One is the concession for low income. I am entitled to it. I paid it in full under protest so as not to hold up registration. Subsequently sent in all the info they wanted. It was approved, a cheque was promised and has not arrived. A month has gone by!

The other count is the documents I sent in support of my claim for reduction, all originals including documents from HMRC which they requested, they have destroyed! They have accepted responsibility and offered to pay my costs for replacing them. HMRC is not exactly well known for being easy to communicate with. I am sure in the end I could obtain all the replacements after spending hours and hours without it costing a single penny (since phone calls are free with a phone package), but what about the time that it will take?

miserable_ol_so_n_so

naedanger wrote: »

Remember if you are making a section 75 claim then you can claim for your time dealing with the matter. (Not saying you will get what you claim but the rules are different from those with court action.) If the cc don't agree to your claim you can take the matter to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/distress-and-inconvenience.htm

Thanks for your comments. Having read them, I am inclined to go to county court claim now as I believe it will be quicker. If the court disallows costs that include compensation for time wasted, then I will pursue it with the Ombudsman.
The only thing is I have already lodged a complaint with the bank though not filled in section 75 claim form yet.