Questions over rental

tranmereforever

Hi,

Was up at my brothers last night and he is having an issue with his rental property

He has been served a section 8 with the view of leaving on July 2nd when his contract expired. However on it it states that he has outstanding rent of £1658! He has shown me his bank statements and he is one month behind ( but can pay this week ) it seems last year he was 2 months behind at one point but has now been paid but the Landlord seems to have put the rest in as charges, are charges of £1008 justifiable! Seems massively high to me

He has a new property lined up for August 7th ( its his previous place ) when it is free and initially LL had said he could stay until then

In the notice it also says he will be subject to deposit deductions but he never had a inspection and his deposit was not protected until 8 months into the tenancy - he received written confirmation 4 months into it from the LL saying he was not protecting it until later in the tenancy

I am going over tonight to help him put a letter together, I will ask for a breakdown in fees and am I right in saying no deductions can be made with regards to the deposit as no inspection was done on moving in, is he eligible for taking the LL to court over the lack of protecting his deposit?

He was suffering from severe depression last year so want to help him as dont want the stress to effect him again

Thanks in advance for any advice

Pixie5740

Ask the landlord for a rent statement. Depending on what ground the Section 8 was issued on your brother might be able to avoid being evicted through this route by getting his rent up to date.

No check-in inventory does not mean deductions cannot be made from the deposit. However, a lack of check-in inventory could make it more difficult for the landlord to justify deductions from the deposit.

If the deposit was indeed protected late then your brother does have the option of suing the landlord for 1-3 times the value of the deposit. Even if he doesn't want to take things that far it could be a useful ace up his sleeve should he need it.

See G_M's guides to Deposits and Ending/renewing an AST for more information.

saajan_12

tranmereforever wrote: »

Hi,

Was up at my brothers last night and he is having an issue with his rental property

He has been served a section 8 with the view of leaving on July 2nd when his contract expired. However on it it states that he has outstanding rent of £1658! He has shown me his bank statements and he is one month behind ( but can pay this week ) it seems last year he was 2 months behind at one point but has now been paid but the Landlord seems to have put the rest in as charges, are charges of £1008 justifiable! Seems massively high to me - Check the tenancy agreement and post the exact wording of any clauses about late fees/penalties. It is fair if your brother agreed to the fees in the tenancy contract. However it matters how / when any fees are payable and regarding which Section 8 clause can refer to them.

He has a new property lined up for August 7th ( its his previous place ) when it is free and initially LL had said he could stay until then - has he signed another agreement? Having two rents would only make matters worse. I don't know the situation unless he can stay with you / family until August, I wouldn't rely on the old place. Start looking now and once you find a place, before signing, agree an early surrender wtih the current landlord so brother can move on his timescales with easy overlaps so he's not homeless nor paying double rent for long.

In the notice it also says he will be subject to deposit deductions but he never had a inspection - An inventory signed by the tenant is helpful for a LL in establishing damages, but it isn't strictly necessary. The LL just needs to prove the condition at the start of the tenancy (e.g. through dated pictures taken without the tenant, an inventory performed by a professional clerk, receipts to show furniture etc was new..)

and his deposit was not protected until 8 months into the tenancy - he received written confirmation 4 months into it from the LL saying he was not protecting it until later in the tenancy- when did the tenancy start? If it was early enough, it may not have been a requirement. If not, brother could be due an extra 1-3x the deposit (likely to be the lower end as the deposit was eventually protected) but this could provide leverage to encourage the LL to agree a surrender or reduce deductions.

I am going over tonight to help him put a letter together, I will ask for a breakdown in fees Good, and ask for an account of rent payments,or make one yourself and am I right in saying no deductions can be made with regards to the deposit as no inspection was done on moving in- No, it'll be harder for LL to prove but it is doable , is he eligible for taking the LL to court over the lack of protecting his deposit- probably, depends on when the tenancy started.?

He was suffering from severe depression last year so want to help him as dont want the stress to effect him again

Thanks in advance for any advice

Focus on getting a a mutual surrender for the current place for when you can get a new place lined up, ideally slightly more affordable to avoid such issues again). This will minimise court fees and the uncertainty of eviction. Then look at rent statements/fees breakdown/contract and deposit deductions point by point to determine liability for fees / damages and post things here - this is where we can help!

Guest101

Penalties are not enforceable


But costs are


Typically £1008 in charges would be substantially higher than expected for 1 months missed payments.

G_M

* As above, ask for a full rent statement. And draw up your own (showing each date rent was due, how much was paid on each date, and how much arrears there were on each date).

Compare the two.

* which 'ground' was the S8 Notice? I suspect it was S8 ground 8 (rent arrears)? See here. If so, then so long as the arrears are less than 2 months rent at the time it goes to court, it will fail.

Pay the arrears!

* Deductions from deposit can be for rent or other costs, not just for things on the inventory or damage.

* Charges can be added provided the tenancy agreement says so, and provided they are reasonable'.

* If the deposit was registered lat, the tenant can claim a penalty. See here.

* Negotiation is the key. Talk to the LL. It seems
a) the LL wants the tenant to leave
b) the tenant wants to leave
c) the tenant has the option of claiming the deposit penalty
d) the landlord wants the rent paid

Surely a compromise can be reached whereby
e) the tenant pays the rent that's owed and
f) a 'Mutual Surrender' is agreed on the date required by the tenant, and
g) the deposit is returned at that point and no action taken on the late registration.

Win/win all round.

Cakeguts

What kind of landlord does he have? Is it a social landlord? Was the tenancy a trial tenancy? Is he going to be moving back into some kind of shelter/ supported housing?

It makes a difference if this is not a private landlord. You need to find out what sort of tenancy it was.

tranmereforever

Hiya,

Just been to see him,

So some of the answers above

It is a private landlord, the property he is moving back to is our aunts and is cheaper, he is in a better place now so on his feet

In the contract for charges it states:

To pay interest upon any late payments at 2% above Bank Of England Base rate per day for any amounts that are more than 7 days late whether requested or not

I am not sure if it makes a difference but the contract also states in the LL obligations that the deposit will be protected within 30 days.

As an update today he has received two Moneyclaim forms from LL but they do not match in any way the rent arrears stated in the section 8 ( not sure if that is relevant )

One is for £440.80 ( period Jan 2016 to June 2016 ) and the other is for £181.26 ( Dec 2016 )

Obviously he has 14 days to respond to them which I will make sure he does.

In terms of the deposit scheme he started the tenancy is June 2015 and it was protected in Feb 2016, he has a letter from the LL in July 2015 stating it was protected and another ( after brother had chased for confirmation ) in Jan 2017 saying " I did not protect the deposit as I felt it was unnecessary at the time" it was only after one more time of writing to him it was protected

I think if a compromise can be met it would suit all parties I am just not entirely sure how the letter should be written. If he puts forward a mutual agreement saying he will not pursue the LL for the protection if an agreement can be found on date/ arrears paid would that work against him if its rejected and he takes the LL to court for the protection

Really appreciating the help

Cakeguts

Can I suggest that he gets a standing order for the rent. It would be a shame to fall out with the aunt because of non payment of rent.

G_M

tranmereforever wrote: »

It is a private landlord, OK

In the contract for charges it states:

To pay interest upon any late payments at 2% above Bank Of England Base rate per day for any amounts that are more than 7 days late whether requested or not
Base Rate is 0.5%, so the rate is 2.05%.

From the amount charged, I'm guessing the LL is charging 2.05% of the arrears each day (eg £1000 arrears = £20.50 per day).

I am not sure if it makes a difference but the contract also states in the LL obligations that the deposit will be protected within 30 days.
No. See the link previously provided above

As an update today he has received two Moneyclaim forms from LL but they do not match in any way the rent arrears stated in the section 8 ( not sure if that is relevant )
No. Doubtless the arrears have changed since the S8 Notice was served.

One is for £440.80 ( period Jan 2016 to June 2016 ) and the other is for £181.26 ( Dec 2016 )

So he is just claiming the money owed? He is not following up the S8 Notice and seeking eviction?

Obviously he has 14 days to respond to them which I will make sure he does.

Pay the arrears he owes. Sorted.

In terms of the deposit scheme he started the tenancy is June 2015 and it was protected in Feb 2016, he has a letter from the LL in July 2015 stating it was protected and another ( after brother had chased for confirmation ) in Jan 2017 saying " I did not protect the deposit as I felt it was unnecessary at the time" it was only after one more time of writing to him it was protected
See the link previously provided above

I think if a compromise can be met it would suit all parties I am just not entirely sure how the letter should be written. If he puts forward a mutual agreement saying he will not pursue the LL for the protection if an agreement can be found on date/ arrears paid would that work against him if its rejected and he takes the LL to court for the protection

Really appreciating the help

Negotiation is always done better face to face.

tranmereforever

Thanks for the reply,

On this one I can answer

The Section 8 and the money claim were both issued the same day ( well both dated the same day ) so not sure how they can have a difference in amounts owed - unless I am missing something obvious

The section 8 states that they want him to move on July 2nd

G_M

tranmereforever wrote: »

The section 8 states that they want him to move on July 2nd

very strange.

I wonder if the LL has confused a S8 Notice (speedy eviction due to arrears) with a S21 Notice (2 months notice required but no reason needed)?

Using a S8 with a 3 month period is hardly usual!

As previously asked, which S8 ground is being used? (see link above)