Friend/housemate and rent arrears: huge mistake

asf259

I have read several threads on here about people lending money to friends only not to be paid back and I now realise how incredibly naive, imbecile and how much of a chump I was to allow myself to be in the situation I am in. I find it difficult to talk about this to any of my friends as I feel very embarrassed at being duped like this. I'm hoping that by posting here, maybe someone will advise on any last steps I can take before writing this off as a very expensive lesson and try to reduce the stress and guilt when I think about it. Or at the very least, this writing process may be therapeutic. Or it may add to the arsenal of warnings to 'never a borrower or a lender be'.

• November 14 I was looking for another housemate when my previous one left. At the same time this friend, approached me saying he's just finished his degree, is looking for a job in the same town, his parents were made redundant, he doesn't have any money but is determined to start working soon and will pay back if I let him stay at mine. His share of the rent was £350 pcm and regrettably I agreed to cover it for the first few months till he started working.
• After the first few months, he was still unemployed and not paying me anything, even though I knew his parents were sending him money to support his lifestyle. His parents even visited and they seemed like decent, respectable people. After this, I would ask for money every couple of months and he would either tell me how he's applying for jobs and will be good for the money he owes, or would get argumentative and ask to be left alone. Of course, these were signs that I needed to put my foot down and ask him to leave and I don't know why I didn't. I was stressed with several other things in my life and I guess I just didn't want the drama.
• Nov 15 he started working in a local pub and paid rent in cash for Dec and Jan. I thought things would be okay, as he's started to pay and is still looking for a better paid job.
• Feb 16 he stopped paying rent and claimed he wasn't getting enough hours at the pub and claimed he was helping himself to the till to get enough. This shocked me quite a bit, as I didn't think a guy with two degrees and a seemingly respectable family would stoop that low. He said he can't ask his parents as they are selling their house to downsize (less of a house, more of a farm estate I realised when the parents invited me over at one point). I really wanted him out, but he said he is going through interview stages for an entry level consultancy job in a big town a commute away and that he would earn enough to pay rent and some of back-rent.
• Mar 16 he started this new consultancy job, but wasn't forthcoming with any rent until May 16, telling me how much his commuting costs etc were. He paid for May and June via bank transfer, but didn't pay towards the back rent which had built up considerably.
• Eventually he moved out in July 16 to be nearer to his work, but refused to make any solid plans with regards to how and when he would pay back. He wanted to leave his car with me as collateral, but I said the car is an old banger not even worth 10% of what he owes. He said he has nowhere to park it near his new flat, I said he can leave it here but I take no responsibility for it. In the days leading up to him leaving, whenever I put my foot down about wanting some basic installment or acknowledgment of the total amount he owed, he would get aggressive and argumentative. He said he would come back over the summer to finalise those plans. He never did. I was so incredibly shocked at how sly he was being and didn't know what to do.
• He made no contact over the summer. All through Aug and Sep he ignored my phonecalls, texts, FB messages and requests through mutual friends. I was desperate and emailed his parents in Oct explaining the situation and asking them to get him to contact me. They didn't reply to me, but he got in touch in Nov over FB. He claimed he is paying off other debts, his new town is expensive and he has nothing spare to pay me back with.
• The biggest shocker was him denying the total amount he owes me for the 15 months he didn't pay. He had the nerve to start to list small things he did around the house and other petty favours (it's not like I abstained from doing him additional favours in return) and went so far as to claim that for most of that period he was only storing his things at mine! His parents visited him here, his friends, our mutual friends, his then girlfriend, he would chat to the neighbours, the landlady when she made her annual inspection...and he had the nerve to say he was only storing! If it wasn't evident already, it was clear I totally misjudged his character and was taken for a ride.
• He contacted me in Jan asking me to take pictures of his 15 year old hatchback so he could sell it and pay me as a first installment. I finally grew a pair and said I'm too busy to do all that and he's welcome to do it himself or send someone else.
• Finally, I contacted him this week asking for an update and when to expect some installments coming in, as my current finances are quite poor. Once again, he ignored me until I asked some mutual friends to nudge him because of the amount he owes me. He gave the same excuses about not having enough to spare. He said he 'could start a direct debit for £20 and eat a little less'; the reverse psychology attempt just infuriated me. He then apologised for 'not being able to help', to which I reminded him it's not help I'm after, but the repayment of a debt. He claimed he would come round next month to sort his darned car and have a chat about the debt.
• Again, he denied the full amount and said he hasn't 'worked out what [he] thinks he owes'. I asked him to work it out over the weekend and let me know as I need to know how much to expect from him, at which point he said he 'knows what [I'm] trying to do and it won't work' and that he doesn't trust me and abruptly ended the conversation. What does he think I'm trying to do? Take him to court? He knows I didn't have him sign a contract or anything so he can easily deny everything, and suddenly his claim from Nov about using my place as a storage suddenly made sense.

I feel totally humiliated at this situation. I'm usually so careful with my money, frugal, if it's too good to be true it probably is, all the MSE mantras. Yet I let this situation build up and now be owed £5k; clearly penny rich and pound foolish. I wasn't assertive and didn't heed by any of the initial warning signs after a few months; I just let it build like a pushover. Frankly, my last recourse was in Oct when I told his parents and thought if they are as decent as they appear to be, with their demeanour, huge farmhouse and how they seemed to dote over him, that maybe they would pay off some of his debt to me.



£5k is a lot to me, but having to deal with him and his behaviour just stresses me out. Do I bite the bullet and accept this loss? Do I try to maintain contact every few months and see if he ever delivers? I feel MCOL is just going to open up more stress and aggravate the situation, particularly with how sly and adversarial he's been.



Thanks for listening.

MrsPorridge

I am so sorry and don't have any advice for you. What did his parents say when you told them what he owed you?

I think if it was me, for my own sanity I would just have to forget it and certainly sever all ties with him completely. I really don't think you are going to get anywhere with him from what you have said.

[Deleted User]

I really feel for you, we have all been there at some point.

I lent my closest friend £1000 to do a course when she was abroad , I was earning good money and she knew it so it was very difficult to turn her down. It went against everything I wanted to do as it does and can effect relationships but I felt backed into a corner.

Anyway there was no sign of it being repaid on the date agreed and it was starting to annoy me as she hadn't even mentioned the loan.

To cut a long story short I had to ask for the money which again felt awkward because I didnt need it but I did get the money back.

We have luckily gotton over that and are still close friends but I think there will never be a request for money again and that suits me fine.

In your situation it doesnt sound like to have to be worried about remaining friends so I would set a deadline with this guy and say you have been more than generous but if he doesn't pay you will have no option but to ask his parents for the money a second time. The fact they previously bailed him out means they will know its highly likely he owes you.

Lesson learnt and good luck.

sourcrates

Three options that i can see.

Option (1)

Attempt to get the money via his parents (again), send an invoice, addressed to him, and a letter of explanation, asking for payment in full.
Although you got no response last time, it may provoke a reaction this time.

Option (2)

Now this would only only work if the guy is as ignorant as you claim he is, go through MCOL and send him a claim form, to "enhance" the deal, send it to his parents address, if he is the type to ask for proof of the debt, then your claim would fall down at this point, as you have non, but, if he chooses to ignore it, you could get a judgement in default, you could then escalate it to the high court, and send high court enforcement officers round to recover the debt.

Or his parents may pay up, to avoid there precious son having a CCJ against his name.

It is a gamble, but 5k is 5k.

Option (3)

Would be to put it down to experience, take the hit, and never do anything of the kind again.

enthusiasticsaver

I personally don't think you are going to get anywhere with him but personally I would calculate the number of months unpaid rent he owes you and invoice as suggested by sourcrates above. Send it to both him and his parents as he is being so difficult.

I am not sure I would be willing to escalate it through court unless you have some proof of rent owed like a rental agreement or at least an acknowledgement from him that he owes you the £5k.

In the end you may have to chalk this up to experience.

Mofette

When I met my husband in 2004, he had a 6 bedroom house and was charging 5 friends £120 a month to live there.
Some of them still weren't paying him that paltry sum!
Once I made him start keeping records one friend straight up moved out owing around £6k. He then moved to Spain to avoid debt.
Others also moved out, then blamed me for it. No sonny, you don't blame me for enforcing what you said.

Then one's girlfriend moved in, took over 2 rooms and never paid anything. She was supposed to be my friend and when she left she owed us around £3k. I will never speak to her again. The two of them moved out with no notice as his parents had bought them a house. They had plenty time to tell us they were leaving but chose to ghost on us instead. Horrible people.

Nothing was enforceable as it was he-said she-said and we had to write it all off as a life lesson. We sold the house in negative equity (it was rotten in some rooms because the room mates didn't tell us how bad the problem was, and the ones owing rent meant there was no money for repairs) and that put me in some debt a couple of years ago.

I don't mean to be a debbie downer, but you will probably not see this money. I wish I could say I've moved on and learned from it but I hate that couple so much. People with no conscience that lie and steal from friends to further their own gains. We now have only been able to buy a house 2 years ago and were set back because of the debt here and there.

For your mental health it may be best to cut losses, sever, and if you feel like it, let his parents know what a slimeball he is. You're not a mega corporation trying to make money off poor people, you were a supposed friend.

freshcotton

Whilst litigation can be stressful, lack of a signed agreement doesn't mean you can't take the matter to court. If he registered his banks, phone, car insurance, driving licence etc, that's evidence of residence.

If the car is registered at your address, then that is beyond storage.

Do what is called a "letter before action". It's the final step before court. Google how it's done. In it, state that you seek evidence of the agreement by relying on any of the above matters.

freshcotton

There might have been some admissions to the debt in some FB, email or texts. Print them and attach it to the letter

professor~yaffle

Sounds like a nightmare, OP, but if this man's now in his 20s (?) I doubt you can pursue his parents for the debt, unless they signed to be a guarantor.

asf259

Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply and post your thoughts. I really appreciate it. I have put a few added comments/replies after the quotes below.

MrsPorridge wrote: »

What did his parents say when you told them what he owed you?

They didn't reply to me at all. When he contacted me after that nudge, he said they 'didn't appreciate being contacted on [their] business email address', that they didn't want to hear about this situation from me and it's up to him to resolve. I probably did cross the line by contacting them on the email address they have listed for their property which has a self-contained section they use for holiday lets. Incidentally, I found a for sale listing for the entire farmhouse on the market since July '16, so perhaps there was one thing he wasn't lying about.

MrsPorridge wrote: »

for my own sanity I would just have to forget it and certainly sever all ties with him completely.

That is precisely the point I am at: salvage my own sanity.

BBH123 wrote: »

We have luckily gotton over that and are still close friends but I think there will never be a request for money again and that suits me fine.

The fact they previously bailed him out means they will know its highly likely he owes you.

I'm sorry to hear of your situation and glad to hear at least your friendship was salvaged. After the way this guy has behaved in this situation, there is no chance of remaining friends. That was my rationale for contacting his parents in Oct 16: that they know what he is like and may intervene.

sourcrates wrote: »

Three options that i can see.

Option (1)

Attempt to get the money via his parents (again), send an invoice, addressed to him, and a letter of explanation, asking for payment in full.
Although you got no response last time, it may provoke a reaction this time.

Option (2)

Now this would only only work if the guy is as ignorant as you claim he is, go through MCOL and send him a claim form, to "enhance" the deal, send it to his parents address, if he is the type to ask for proof of the debt, then your claim would fall down at this point, as you have non, but, if he chooses to ignore it, you could get a judgement in default, you could then escalate it to the high court, and send high court enforcement officers round to recover the debt.

Or his parents may pay up, to avoid there precious son having a CCJ against his name.

It is a gamble, but 5k is 5k.

Option (3)

Would be to put it down to experience, take the hit, and never do anything of the kind again.

Thank you for the very clear options. Wrt option 2, I don't think he is that ignorant given though I may have given that impression. The fact that he admitted to helping himself to the till at his bar job, his refusal to tell me exactly what he is disputing from the total amount owed, his claim that he 'only stored stuff' here and his most recent lashing out that he 'knows what [I'm] trying to do and it won't work', makes me think he is being very careful with what he is saying. He didn't come across as this devious while I knew him or amongst mutual friends...perhaps this is his true nature or someone is advising him. Regardless, without proof of the debt, I understand there is nothing I can do.

There are mutual friends who know the situation, his ex who would come over every few days, but I doubt anything they have to corroborate would stand up in court.

Options 1 followed by 3 are likely my only course of action.

enthusiasticsaver wrote: »

I personally don't think you are going to get anywhere with him but personally I would calculate the number of months unpaid rent he owes you and invoice as suggested by sourcrates above. Send it to both him and his parents as he is being so difficult.

I am not sure I would be willing to escalate it through court unless you have some proof of rent owed like a rental agreement or at least an acknowledgement from him that he owes you the £5k.

He has been very careful not to acknowledge the final amount, or any derivation of it by admitting months of occupancy. Invoice and then chalk it up to experience it is.

Mofette wrote: »

I don't mean to be a debbie downer, but you will probably not see this money. I wish I could say I've moved on and learned from it but I hate that couple so much. People with no conscience that lie and steal from friends to further their own gains. We now have only been able to buy a house 2 years ago and were set back because of the debt here and there.

For your mental health it may be best to cut losses, sever, and if you feel like it, let his parents know what a slimeball he is. You're not a mega corporation trying to make money off poor people, you were a supposed friend.

That must have been such a horrendous situation to be in, I can't even imagine. The betrayal of trust from a supposed friend is a bitter pill, but worse still has been my own realisation that I was naive enough to have been a target for someone like that. It really has left me very introspective and just wondering how the heck I could have let this happen.

freshcotton wrote: »

Whilst litigation can be stressful, lack of a signed agreement doesn't mean you can't take the matter to court. If he registered his banks, phone, car insurance, driving licence etc, that's evidence of residence.

If the car is registered at your address, then that is beyond storage.

I am trying to remember if I noticed any official mail coming to the house in his name. I don't recall seeing any bank statements or similar laying around with his name while he was here, or anything to indicate the car is indeed registered here. There are no resident parking permit schemes on my street so there may have been no need for him to have registered his car here.

The only mail I have received since he left is an alumni magazine, which doesn't really prove anything.

freshcotton wrote: »

Do what is called a "letter before action". It's the final step before court. Google how it's done. In it, state that you seek evidence of the agreement by relying on any of the above matters.

Would I be right in thinking the LBA could be combined with the invoicing suggestion made by sourcrates and enthusiasticsaver above? The onus to prove his residence at my address would be on me, wouldn't it? Or by saying 'seek evidence of the agreement by relying on....' it is asking him to provide those documents?

freshcotton wrote: »

There might have been some admissions to the debt in some FB, email or texts. Print them and attach it to the letter

I shall have another careful trawl through all of those and phone backups to see if I can dig up something. He has admitted that there is a debt, just not the actual amount, which doesn't help me in this case.

professor~yaffle wrote: »

Sounds like a nightmare, OP, but if this man's now in his 20s (?) I doubt you can pursue his parents for the debt, unless they signed to be a guarantor.

I fully understand that; I only contacted the parents because I had no other way of nudging him to contact me. I also thought given they knew he was living here, visited him here twice, they invited me to spend a week with them when he was also going, they seemed decent etc that they may feel embarrassed and actively sort this out out of principle. I know I have absoutely no legal recourse to pursue his parents for the debt.

January2015

Lack of official looking post does not mean he didn't register the property as his address. Nowadays most things like this are paperless. I don't get paper bank statements, utility bills etc. It's difficult to tell these days whether someone has registered such accounts at a property because of this.