PCN: Rejected poor signage appeal

miyo360

Hi,

Some weeks back I received a PCN from my local council regarding failing to comply with a contravention (turning into a road with a no-entry sign).

I don't doubt the convention. I realised my mistake about 10 yards into the road, but safely turned off a side street to turn around. I honestly did not see the no-entry sign. I was travelling with my partner, who also did not notice the sign.

I appealed via the council's website that the no-entry sign was actually hidden from view by other road signs when approaching that turning. I sent a detailed description and still image from google street view showing a cars-eye view of the problem. The google pictures are a snap shot of the approach every 10 meters. The no-entry sign is only visable within the last few meters (not helped by the fact the sign is not even perpendicular to the road I was travelling along). In fact, the sign is only really noticable whilst actually making the turn into that road. particulary when slowing from 30 MPH.

There were three points of my appeal; that the signage is blocked by other street signs, that the no-entry sign itself is not facing the road I am travelling on, and backing out of the left turn half way into the no-entry road would have caused confusion and potentially an accident elsewhere with other road users.

I put all this in the appeal, but just received a rejection notice. The response to my comments and supporting evidence was "contravening the no-entry restriction is potentially dangerous to pedestrians and other road users, as you are driving along the road in the wrong direction".

What?! It is not addressing my comments and supporting evidence at all. Where is the response to my claim the sign is hidden by other signs, or it doesn't actually face the road? They are just stating that I have contravened the restriction. A cut-and-paste job.

The rejection included a further appeal form to London Tribunals Environment & Traffic Adjudicators. If I appeal, I lose my right to reduced PCN charge of £65 (goes up to £130). I can pay £65 now, appeal, and pay the balance if unsuccessful. It doesn't mention what happens if I am successful - presumably I get a refund?

• Has anyone successfully appealed a PCN (not based on parking) due to poor signage?
• Will I get a refund if I win the adjucator case?

Any advice, comments, suggestions are gratefully received.
Mike.

Fruitcake

You would be better off posting this on pepipoo.com as they are the council/police motoring experts. We tend to specialise in private parking tickets here on mse.

You will need to register on pepipoo with an email address, but Hotmail doesn't work for some reason.

Read the FAQs then post both sides of your redacted PCN and other paperwork images with your query.

miyo360

Many thanks. I have posted on there now.

Tilt

Would need to know the location or to see images of the junction/signage to comment.

miyo360

As mentioned, I have moved the conversation onto the forums at pepipoo.com

I can't post links here, but go to the forums and search for "PCN: Rejected poor signage appeal, No-entry sign hidden by other signs"

or google the topic number 112799

Many thanks. Comments appreciated!!

Tilt

Ok, i've seen your images on Pepipoo.

There is the painted wording on the road surface "Ahead Only" just before the junction but that on it's own is insufficient in my opinion.

There should be a "no left turn" sign in advance of the junction so I would say you should pursue this as far as adjudicator if necessary sighting inadequate signage.

That is what I would do but obviously you risk the opportunity of the discount being offered.

Coupon-mad

Seconded, that is also what I would have said, back in the day when I had time to post on pepipoo about Council PCNs. Should be a 'no left turn' sign in advance.

Everyone who wants to meaningfully appeal has to forget the discount and on pepipoo almost everyone wins v Council and private 'tickets'.