Free Bitcoin?

unitedwestand

Linton wrote: »

It seems to me that this is a misunderstanding of how the world works. Most transactions never involve real money, but are instead merely changes to database entries. Your bank account could convert to bitcoin instantly by changing the £ sign to the bitcoin equivalent on the bank statement or online account webpage. The physical nature of the currency is irrelevant. Moving money from one account to another doesn't require taking a bag of coins to a different room, the overheads in doing this, even virtually, would be horrendous.

Are you agreeing? As that's exactly how Cryptocurrenices work, just more efficiently without using fiat currencies at all

Linton wrote: »

If you are going to require that all transactions be carried out with real bitcoins can you explain the details of how a bitcoin mortgage would work?

As to misrepresenting accounts, this has nothing to do with currency but rather the words used to describe its use.

In the future, you wont get mortgages from a traditional bank it will most likely be P2P lending as you'll be able to cut out the middle man and go direct to those with digital money to lend via some Cryptocurrency in exchange for some interest. You'll also be able to send a "stream" of repayments every minute you occupy the property with a cryptocurrency using a lightning network. Its only the inefficiencies of the current banking system that require monthly repayments.

I wouldn't able able to tell you that if people hadn't got of the fear of the new "internet" thingy years ago.

Malthusian

As Reaper says, when people lose confidence in a state's currency they start using a more stable one like dollars. If they can't get hold of one - and trading in a foreign currency in this kind of country can get you imprisoned, tortured or killed, so it's a big risk - they resort to barter.

The trouble with considering Bitcoins in this kind of situation is that it is basically barter, due to its volatility. It offers most of the disadvantages of barter and none of the advantages. If you compare the ups and downs of Bitcoin over the last year, they are about the same degree as the ups and downs of a bushel of wheat. So if I am a Zimbabwean trying to survive, I may as well trade in bushels of wheat. I will face the same problem of fluctuating value, but if I can't get trade it for something valuable I can at least grind it up and eat it. (The same principle applies to pigs or clothing or whatever I can get my hands on in the barter market.)

I have only an academic interest in doomsday scenarios like this anyway. If I was living somewhere that was undergoing a Zimbabwe situation I would not be trying to survive on Bitcoins or bartered food, I would be getting the hell out.

unitedwestand

Malthusian wrote: »

If Tesco's results were quoted in Bitcoins it could still fiddle them. It would be easier to, as with the constantly fluctuating value people would have much less idea of what they should look like.

Of course it is. There is a mere $16 billion worth of bitcoins in circulation - a drop in the ocean compared to the $1.2 trillion worth of dollars, the €1.1 trillion worth of euros and the $750 billion of Japanese yen. Even the mere $87 billion of pound sterling dwarfs it. All of these currencies, remember, are apparently open to manipulation by governments. What do you think would happen if the US government or the Chinese took some of the reserves they currently use to manipulate fiat currency, and ploughed it into bitcoins? And then dumped it all a week later?

Unfortunately the limit on supply coupled with the constantly fluctuating demand result in a highly volatile price and make it useless as a currency or store of value.

The case was for putting your money in companies instead of Bitcoin.
Yes I agree Tesco and other companies will cook their books no matter what currency you buy shares with. It's almost impossible to cook the books of a currency that has a public ledger such as Bitcoin.

How do you know Governments aren't doing that with Bitcoin already and saying it's volatility makes it too risky as a currency or for an ETF? What they're not going to do is lose a substantial amount of money avoiding selling for less than they purchase it for as it's a globally owned/ traded commodity. What they are doing is printing their own money at the moment and devaluing their own currency... that's fact. As Cyrptocurrencies reach mass adoption by the mainstream they will become more stable and less vulnerable to any government intervention and their own fiat currencies more unstable.

fun4everyone

Note I am not really for or against bitcoin but I think it merits discussion.

Another problem not yet mentioned with bitcoin that I see is as follows. Your normal bank account only has to get the tiniest sniff that you are buying or selling bitcoin to close your accounts down. Just google bitcoin closed bank account or search bitcoin forums to see. The UK is notorious for being one of the worst for this. I dont even care if 95% of transactions go through without punishment I do not want a 5% chance of my bank account being closed thank you very much!

So if dont want to use my bank account/faster payments/credit card to buy bitcoins then how do I do it? I am certainly not handing cash over to a stranger. As far as I can see it the only option are the ATM's and they are only in London/Manchester/Glasgow. They also charge huge rip off fees. Until it is easier to buy they cannot ever be mass market.

unitedwestand

Biggles wrote: »

No, it's open to manipulation by terrorists, drug dealers & other criminals. I'll settle for governments, thanks.

Seriously Biggles, I used to think that as I was listening to info fed from mainstream media.

The truth is most crime and tax invasion in the UK uses pound notes, but if you heard the media harping on about that you'd think they were mental. Contrary to belief criminals using bitcoin have been tracked and prosecuted by governments as there is a digital ledger recording every transaction. Pound notes don't have that and one of the reasons India withdrew their larger physical notes from circulation.

jimjames

unitedwestand wrote: »

The case was for putting your money in companies instead of Bitcoin.

No it wasn't. Your case was for bitcoin being a store of value. I suggested it wasn't because it was too volatile.

Long term the best store of value has been investments in stock markets - not necessarily individual companies or countries.

JohnRo

unitedwestand wrote: »

As Cyrptocurrencies reach mass adoption by the mainstream they will become more stable and less vulnerable to any government intervention and their own fiat currencies more unstable.

I'm all for crypto and the disruption of the omnipotent criminal money printing cartel but be realistic, that's just not going to happen in anyone's lifetime.

Crypto is clearly here to stay and will evolve and reach its potential at some point but in what form is yet to be decided, definitively.

Given the nature of human behaviour it will have an almighty, multi generational, uphill battle against the endemic manipulation, corruption and privilege that makes the existing financial and political world go round.

unitedwestand

jimjames wrote: »

No it wasn't. Your case was for bitcoin being a store of value. I suggested it wasn't because it was too volatile.

Long term the best store of value has been investments in stock markets - not necessarily individual companies or countries.

Yip, my case was for a store of value, your case was for putting cash in to companies instead of Bitcoin.

When you buy £1 of Bitcoin you get £1 of Bitcoin, when you buy £1 of Tesco you might be getting £1 worth of Tesco depending on what figures Tesco are using to report on.

To date bitcoin as a store of value has been exceptional, that's not to say that will always be the case, but it has been over the past 8 years.

When it was at a tenner nearly 99% of folk, including myself was saying it was a mirage. These days its about 75% think that of cryptocurrencies, in the next 10 years it will be 50% and so on.

It's the same for every new technological revolution from the horseless cart (the first car) to the internet.

glentoran99

unitedwestand wrote: »

I would always recommend asking yourself.... would you like a free Bitcoin?

if its free then ive nothing to loose, so yes

glentoran99

unitedwestand wrote: »

Yip, my case was for a store of value, your case was for putting cash in to companies instead of Bitcoin.

When you buy £1 of Bitcoin you get £1 of Bitcoin, when you buy £1 of Tesco you might be getting £1 worth of Tesco depending on what figures Tesco are using to report on.

To date/ bitcoin as a store of value has been exceptional, that's not to say that will always be the case, but it has been over the past 8 years.

When you by £1 of bitcoin you get what £1 of bitcoin is worth at that second of time, 30 seconds later that £1 of bitcoin is worth 50p, Or £10 depending on what happens in a very volatile market,


You could spend some bitcoin on a pizza and a month later find that pizza cost you £1000


So my question is, Would you buy bitcoin as a saving method?