Moving overseas - what else do I need to think of?

angie_wonders

Hi,

I work in a mid sized financial services firm in the South East and am currently on maternity leave, planning to go back to work in a couple of months.

During the time I've been on mat leave, a lot has changed at work. Hiring has been frozen and about 12-15% of the staff have been let go of (mostly people hired in the last couple of years) in one way or the other. My company very rarely fires anyone, but given the way it works, it's not too hard to encourage people to resign.

I am a 'valued employee' in the sense that I did make a lot of money for the firm in my role, but I am quite clear-eyed about the fact that I am expendable, and maybe even more so given they might have doubts about how hard I'll be able to work when I'm back and with a young child at home. Given the circumstances, I thought it might be appropriate to plan as to what happens if I'm put in a position that my job becomes untenable.

I have looked around to gauge how the job market looks at the moment in my particular sector and it isn't very encouraging. Not a lot of vacancies and I might have to take a 15-20% cut in basic pay and of course have to start from scratch again. Plus, the bigger players (whose hiring policies could be expected to ignore the fact that I'm a new mum) just aren't hiring at the moment.

The other option is to try for a job in the public sector of which there appear to be quite a few, albeit with a significant pay cut.

The final option, which is what my partner and I would like some advice on, is moving overseas, most likely to Dubai/Abu Dhabi or Singapore with a significant jump in take home pay.

Based on the job market, we could also potentially move to Canada/Australia or Europe (Dublin, Frankfurt), but we need it to be somewhere where it would be feasible to employ a nanny on our income. Unfortunately, that rules out those options.

We don't have any family near where we live in the SE (plus we aren't close enough to expect to visit the UK for them) and we live in a rented flat with a very light footprint (we don't even have a car since we live near the town centre and have been saving up like crazy to buy our own place for quite some time now), so moving is pretty much just a matter of packing up a few suitcases and leaving.

Plus, our thinking is that our daughter will not need to go to school for another 4 years or so, so we always have the option of coming back if things look up in my sector or she reaches school age when it'll makes less financial sense to stay overseas if we have to pay for private school (which I've heard can be horrendously expensive).

My partner works in the public sector and can get a 3 year career break from work and can seek employment elsewhere if overseas during that period. His skills are pretty transferable so he should be able to get a decent job without too much trouble.

I was just wondering, is there anything else that I need to think of? It just seems a bit too neat and tidy and I just keep feeling that there is loads of stuff that we haven't considered yet.

Sorry about the long read, but would love your thoughts on other aspects that we need to keep in mind when evaluating a move overseas.

Thanks,

Angie

muhandis

Off the top of my head -

- health insurance, will it be covered by employer, is it expensive, etc
- cost of living (rent primarily)
- can you rent close to work or will you need to drive, can you use your UK licenses or will you need to get new ones
- impact of any currency movements
- weather (not so much an issue in Singapore as opposed to Dubai)
- will your daughter be exposed to a variety of people (only if you would want that of course), expats in Dubai can live in quite insular surroundings sometimes
- the local culture in Dubai is something that you will need to consider

ft_buyer

Unless your new employer is generous with relocation benefits, you will most likely need a good amount of liquid cash to fund the move.

Also, if you need to pick between the middle east and Singapore, remember that traveling to the UK/Europe is a relatively short flight while from Singapore is double that. Similar issues with time zones as well.

Another minor point is, if you have control over the timing, make maximum use of the tax-free personal allowance, both when leaving the UK and if/when moving back.

Pinot_Noir

I am currently based in the UAE and would sum up the positives and negatives as per the below:

Positives
- Tax free salary.
- Mandatory health care provided by employers (obviously the coverage and deductibles can vary).
- The weather. Nine months of the year are perfect for eating outside, heading to the beach, chilling by the pool etc.
- Mixture of people. The UAE has been the most diverse place we have ever lived including London and we now have friends and colleagues from all over the world including India, Palestine, Malaysia, Australia, Morocco etc.
- Most people you meet will be expats and understand/appreciate what it is like to suddenly arrive in a new country. Sign up to Meetup, say hi and introduce yourself to the other parents in the local playground/nursery and you should be able to make friends easily.
- Fantastically placed for travel to the Middle East, Asia, Australia, etc.

Negatives:
- Cost of living is high. For example, a basic internet package will cost you over £100 a month and there is no opportunity to change providers like in the UK. Groceries are also very expensive, especially if you want to shop at the "nicer" supermarkets like Waitrose.
- There is a big expectation that you will have a certain type of lifestyle and bucking against this can be difficult socially. I have certainly been questioned as to why I don't want to go to a £100+ a head brunch on a regular basis and looked down upon because I chose to take a pack lunch to work/use YNAB/save for a pension.
- There is a very clear social hierarchy here which can easily lead to people developing racist attitudes and thinking they are better than those that serve them such as taxi drivers, cleaners, waitresses etc.
- Employers struggle with the concept of transferable skills and often have very set ideas about who they want to hire. My husband took months to find a job and his boss was considered radical for employing a highly experienced maths graduate to a financial analyst role as opposed to someone with an degree in finance!
- If you ever need to pay school fees, they are horrific and getting a space in the first place will be a nightmare.

If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask!

Lioness_Twinkletoes

I think you need to consider how you will manage if you need/want to return to the UK.

Once again, you'll need access to a significant sum of money in order to rent somewhere to live. If you want access to benefits you'll need to take and pass the habitual residency test. Then you need to consider getting your child into a school, any tax implications, access to the NHS, your NI payments and so on.

angie_wonders

Thanks muhandis, that's very helpful.

muhandis wrote: »

Off the top of my head.....

Thanks to our savings for a deposit, we have a good sum of liquid cash available to cover moving costs, initial rental+deposit, etc.

And yes, I do prefer the middle-east from a logistics pov, ,much closer than Singapore.

ft_buyer wrote: »

.......

Many thanks Pinot Noir, great to see pros and cons from the point of view of a current expat. The weather definitely appeals Over the past couple of years of saving for a deposit, I've been well trained in the art of saying no to expensive social events, might have to draw on that experience if I move to the UAE!

I've heard what you mention about decent schooling. Unless we're making enough money to well offset the extra cost, will probably consider moving back to the UK then if the job market has picked up.

I had one question I was hoping you could answer, is there a lot of difference between Dubai and Abu Dhabi with regard to living costs? I've searched on expat forums wrt to this topic, but I saw a lot of mixed opinions.

Pinot_Noir wrote: »

I am currently based in the UAE and would sum up the positives and negatives as per the below:

Thanks for that. Fortunately, since my partner will be on a career break from his employer in the public sector, a move back should be fairly straightforward. The plan is to save enough in 3-4 years to be able to buy with a small mortgage if we come back.

Lioness_Twinkletoes wrote: »

I think you need to consider how you will manage if you need/want to return to the UK.

Pinot_Noir

angie_wonders wrote: »

I had one question I was hoping you could answer, is there a lot of difference between Dubai and Abu Dhabi with regard to living costs? I've searched on expat forums wrt to this topic, but I saw a lot of mixed opinions.

Hmmm, difficult question. The supermarkets are the same, the municipality fees are similar and VAT will soon be applied everywhere! I think the answer really depends on where your job is, where you want to live (i.e. near work, near the beach etc) and whether you want an apartment or a villa. For example, a flat five minutes from Sowwah Square in Abu Dhabi will be a LOT less than a similar sized flat five minutes from the DIFC in Dubai. However, if living in a villa is more important to you than a long commute, you may find you have a lot more choice in Dubai than Abu Dhabi.

If you are trying to pick between Emirates, I would personally consider the following:

- Where are the jobs for your industry based? No good deciding to live in Dubai if your work is related to the UAE Government, as the latter will only pay Abu Dhabi housing allowances!

- What do you like doing in your free time? Most people would probably say that Dubai is more of an exciting, bright lights party town whereas Abu Dhabi is calmer, more traditional and more family-friendly.

- How do you feel about commuting? I have always found the traffic in Dubai to be FAR worse than the traffic in Abu Dhabi and this can have a very big impact at rush hour if you chose to live in one of the popular compounds in Dubai such as Green community or Discovery Gardens.

While the below post is rather old, I would say it still holds true:

https://arabiannotes.com/the-great-debate-abu-dhabi-vs-dubai/

Dubai can be a lot of fun and if you are someone that only plans to be in the region for a couple of years and enjoys going out every evening/weekend doing something new, Dubai would be perfect. If however, you are someone who likes to settle, feel at home and spend your free time hanging out with friends on the beach, Abu Dhabi may be better suited.

lady1964

I lived in Dubai for almost 4 years, admittedly 25 years ago but returned for a 4 day break 2 years ago.

Do not underestimate the heat & humidity of the summer weather. In late May 2 years ago, we had 111 degrees with around 80% humidity. It will get hotter during August, I found it impossible to sit outside day & night. The weather there is ideal between late October & April, that's not too many months of the year. Of course, you may like extreme heat ��

steampowered

Living in Dubai is going to be much nicer than living in Abu Dhabi. You'd only want to choose Abu Dhabi over Dubai if there was a significant salary difference.

Pinot_Noir

steampowered wrote: »

Living in Dubai is going to be much nicer than living in Abu Dhabi. You'd only want to choose Abu Dhabi over Dubai if there was a significant salary difference.

I have lived in both Abu Dhabi and Dubai and chose Abu Dhabi..........

asajj

Dubai and Abu Dhabi both are great if you are the holder of a privileged passport.
I for one chose not to be part of such political regimes in any way, regardless of the salary difference but work with people across the region and from what I can see, pretty boring places unless you want to fork out for expensive brunches etc. as suggested above.

On the other hand, I work for a big company and I'm not sure why you think any big company would not cater for new mums. My experience is the exact opposite.

Singapore is similar but my favourite. Still boring, expensive and can feel very small. Getting more difficult to find a job though as they are not as happy as they were with expats coming and taking the best of their jobs.