PPS notice out of bay

WhatWouldHomerDo

Hi all -


spent the day in London yesterday and parked in a pay and display car park near the station (not in the station car park) - paid the £4.50 full day charge. On return had a PCN on the windscreen for £100 fine (£60 if paid in 14 days) as the car "Exceeds marked bay area". I have photos of the car in situ and this is technically correct, but the amount exceeded is less than 1cm and the car is not impeding any other user.


The PCN was issued by PPS.


We do have some experience of this type of thing before....our daughter had a PCN issued by Meteor about 18 months ago (for overstaying at a car park at 2:00am) and after a look here and at Pepipoo we decided to ignore all correspondence. As anticipated the letters got increasingly threatening, but after about 12 weeks they stopped completely and we have heard no more since.


In my case I am minded to ignore the PCN from PPS - I feel it is an unjustified way of raising money when no actual loss was incurred by the landowner. I have read the options available here for appealing, but some of these go back a few years and possibly the process has changed.


Is my best option to ignore this one as well (as it worked out OK last time)?


Thanks


WWHD

pappa_golf

who is pps? many companies have those initials


your previous ticket ,, MET , you do realise they still have another 4.5 yrs to start court action , don,t you (met propably will not tho)

Redx

the situation changed in oct 2012 with POFA2012 so the advice for the last 5 years on here and on pepipoo is to ALWAYS APPEAL in the first instance (see the NEWBIES sticky thread for the latest version of the advice)

18 months is neither here nor there in this scammers paradise , the PPC has 6 years to issue a court case under MCOL, so 18 months is a lot less than the 72 months they are entitled to , so to say "it worked out ok last time" is a foolish and naive statement to make , even if it was MET and not some other PPC

PPS could be anyone, and several companies have similar initials or names

WhatWouldHomerDo

PPS = Premier Parking Solutions

Coupon-mad

So the advice is as per the NEWBIES thread about IPC firms. Which is NOT to ignore (yet).

Silvertabby

We had a similar problem in a council run car park - the car on the right was right up to the white line so we parked a couple of cms over the yellow line on the left. Again, not a problem to any other vehicle.

The fine was £40 (£25 if paid within a certain time) so we paid rather than go through any hassle.

However, I do hope the council put our £25 to good use - because the shop owners of that town have now lost a LOT more than that in our lost business.

dizzyheyjude

I did the very same thing, only 1cm of one of my wheels was over the line. The car next to me was also parked over (hence the reason I was).


It was excel parking I appealed and predictably they said no. I then ignored all letters which eventually ceased. However I just received a county court claim.


Take the advice of the forum and fight it every step of the way, as you don't want to be in position I am in and wait till that court order comes when you may be able to quash it before that stage.

Coupon-mad

Council PCNs are appealable too (at 2nd or 3rd stage most people win v Councils, if they get advice from pepipoo forum). But Council appeals are completely different from stupid parking firms!

WhatWouldHomerDo

I read the original pinned advice and decided to wait for the "notice to keeper" and then follow the steps recommended. However, the NTK has not arrived (now over 3 months since the ticket was issued). Is there a time limit for the NTK to be issued and are they now over it and can no longer pursue me?

WWHD

Fruitcake

The NTK should either arrive within 14 days where ANPR is used, or between 28 and 56 days where a windscreen ticket is left, if the scammers want to rely on the POFA 2012.
If it arrives later than those two periods, depending on whether ANPR was used or not, then they can't hold the keeper liable which is why you are always advised to appeal as keeper.

If you are past day 56, then the keeper can't be held liable. This doesn't mean the scammers won't send the NTK, just that they can't rely on the POFA. They have six years to send one out.

So, you just wait and see what happens next. If you move, write and tell them, plus the DVLA twice, (once for driving licence and once for the vehicle V5.)

Loadsofchildren123

Obviously, take great care not to identify who was driving.
They may well try to sue you anyway, and to get round the 56 day problem they will invite the court to find that you, RK, were also the driver.
You will say:
1. you weren't driving
2. more than one person is insured to, and regularly does, drive your car.
3. There is no precedent for presuming a RK was driving, and PPCs' interpretation and reliance on Elliott v Loake in this regard has been found countless times to be wrong.
4. There is no precedent for asserting that RK is liable for the actions of a driver driving his car, and PPCs' interpretation and reliance on the AJH Films case in this regard has been found countless times to be wrong.
5. You are under no obligation to identify the driver.
6. If the PPC wants to sue you as driver the burden of proof is on it to prove you were and they have produced no evidence that you were.
7. In any event, the breach of the alleged term was de minimis, as the photographs clearly show [did they park over the line because the space was so small, or because the car in the next space had done so thus leaving insuffient room? there was a case like this on the forum recently and the judge dismissed it]
8. You may or may not also have signage arguments (not contractual wording/badly displayed signs).