Bought an ATV with the serial numbers removed. What are my rights?

Shaka_Zulu

gwernybwch wrote: »

Thanks for the reply.
Can I just ask that your post has a basis on consumer protection knowledge or legislation ?

By your own admission this is not a consumer issue. This is a B2B contract!

If you are going to purchase items that are for spares or repair to sell on for profit then you need to know what you are looking at.

gwernybwch

Shaka_Zulu wrote: »

By your own admission this is not a consumer issue. This is a B2B contract!

If you are going to purchase items that are for spares or repair to sell on for profit then you need to know what you are looking at.

How do you figure that I am a business?

One of the posters asked why I thought that it was worth much less with the serial numbers removed and I said, in essence, it had much less resale value - either sold as a whole or broken up and sold in bits - with the serial numbers removed.
That didn't mean that I was planning to sell it, either as a whole or in bits or that I am a business, now did it?

shaun_from_Africa

Is the ATV concerned designed strictly for off road use only or is it road legal providing that it has an MOT, insurance etc?

If it's an off road vehicle only then as far as I can see. it's no different to a lawn mower in than a chassis or other serial number isn't a legal requirement so selling such a vehicle with a number removed isn't in itself illegal and there wouldn't be any laws broken by the seller providing that the vehicle and/or engine hasn't been stolen.

societys_child

Agree with above ^
and can't understand why you're so worried about resale value, unless you bought it to sell on and make a profit. (which is a business)

. . . not as easy to fix as I first thought so want my money back thread

Sounds like it.

gwernybwch

societys_child wrote: »

and can't understand why you're so worried about resale value, unless you bought it to sell on and make a profit.

Your joking right?
If your friend bought a car, say for £4000 from a garage and then they got it home only to find that it's serial numbers have been removed (READ: it's more than likely been stolen at some point it's life) and the garage neglected to mention it, therefore meaning it is really worth £2000. Would you say to them "I can't understand why your so worried about how much it is worth now"?

takman

gwernybwch wrote: »

Your joking right?
If your friend bought a car, say for £4000 from a garage and then they got it home only to find that it's serial numbers have been removed (READ: it's more than likely been stolen at some point it's life) and the garage neglected to mention it, therefore meaning it is really worth £2000. Would you say to them "I can't understand why your so worried about how much it is worth now"?

It is a completely different situation on a car because removing the VIN number is illegal. Also when buying a car checks should be carried out (such as HPI) on the cars history.


Just like you should have carried out basic checks when buying the ATV such as taking 30 seconds to look at the serial numbers.


But the ironic thing is that if it was stolen and the serial numbers were left intact then you wouldn't have done any further investigation and it wouldn't have bothered you at all!.

gwernybwch

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

Is the ATV concerned designed strictly for off road use only or is it road legal providing that it has an MOT, insurance etc?

If it's an off road vehicle only then as far as I can see. it's no different to a lawn mower in than a chassis or other serial number

Thanks for the reply.
I would equate it closer to a car than a lawnmower. In that the serial numbers form a significant part of the vehicle. If it was a lawn mower, wouldn't you be concerned as to why someone went to the trouble of removing the serial numbers?

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

so selling such a vehicle with a number removed isn't in itself illegal and there wouldn't be any laws broken by the seller providing that the vehicle and/or engine hasn't been stolen.

That's what I was hoping for a bit of advice and clarification on here - and not getting very far! From the little I know, there are laws regarding receiving stolen goods and also negligence. You could be right it what you say, but surely there is some consumer legislation that means that a business has to reasonably ensure that what they sell hasn't been tampered with or previously stolen?

gwernybwch

takman wrote: »

It is a completely different situation on a car because removing the VIN number is illegal. Also when buying a car checks should be carried out (such as HPI) on the cars history.


Just like you should have carried out basic checks when buying the ATV such as taking 30 seconds to look at the serial numbers.


But the ironic thing is that if it was stolen and the serial numbers were left intact then you wouldn't have done any further investigation and it wouldn't have bothered you at all!.

That post is so stupid, I don't where to even begin!

You know that the serial numbers and the VIN numbers are the same thing???

Well done Captain Hindsight's personal assistant; I have already said in a previous post that I should have checked that the serial numbers were in place. I can say it again if you like. Happy to move on now?

Your right, I wouldn't have done further investigation if the serial numbers had been left in place. Why would I have? OR ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT I AM HAPPY TO BUY STOLEN GOODS?

shaun_from_Africa

gwernybwch wrote: »

From the little I know, there are laws regarding receiving stolen goods and also negligence. You could be right it what you say, but surely there is some consumer legislation that means that a business has to reasonably ensure that what they sell hasn't been tampered with or previously stolen?

Buying stolen goods isn't illegal. Knowingly buying stolen goods is.
You are right that a business has to take reasonable steps to ensure that they aren't selling stolen goods but there is nothing to stop them selling tampered or defaced goods provided that the tampering or defacing doesn't make those goods illegal (such as with car VIN details).

takman

gwernybwch wrote: »

That post is so stupid, I don't where to even begin!

You know that the serial numbers and the VIN numbers are the same thing???

Well done Captain Hindsight's personal assistant; I have already said in a previous post that I should have checked that the serial numbers were in place. I can say it again if you like. Happy to move on now?

Your right, I wouldn't have done further investigation if the serial numbers had been left in place. Why would I have? OR ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT I AM HAPPY TO BUY STOLEN GOODS?

If you remove the VIN number on a car that is ILLEGAL. If you remove the serial number's from an off road ATV that is NOT ILLEGAL. That is why you can't compare it buying a car with no VIN numbers.


Hindsight means that you can only see what should have been done after an event has occurred. This is NOT hindsight because it is common sense and it is widely publicised that you should carry out basic checks on a vehicle BEFORE you buy it.


Well if the serial numbers had been present it wouldn't mean it hadn't been stolen. So if your so concerned about it being stolen why wouldnt you have carried out checks using this information?.