HELP! UHD/Ultra HD4K advice & upscaling question(S)-& is Sony UHD worth the extra??!

DEBTMONKEY1A

Can anyone recommended a site that offers high and top end refurbished ultra hd qitg a guarantee? Tried usuals like tesco and argos, any others I've missed?

DEBTMONKEY1A

Can anyone recommended sites for top/high end ultra hd televisions that are refurbished witg a guarantee? Tried usuals like argos and tesco, appliances direct, richer sounds etc...any good ones I'm missing?

almillar

Secondly-upscaling. Will ANY UHD TV upscale ALL TV-or is it just (as I'm lead to believe)-JUST full 1080p HD? Assume SD TV & normal DVD'S/BLU RAYS (played through external BR player)-are not upscaled?

Of course it will up-scale it - otherwise it wouldn't fill the screen! You're looking for a good upscaler. That usually doesn't mean lots of gimmicky marketing terms and adding lots of artifacts. Just a little bit of sharpness. Anyway, don't buy a 4k TV for 1080 or SD quality pictures, concentrate on the 4K, HDR quality.

Lots of the things that you list as not bothered about, will be included whether you like it or not. (USB, WiFi, Smart-ness etc).

Watch out for what HDMI version the HDMI ports are - most TVs at this point won't have all HDMIs 4K compatible.

HDR is the difficulty here. thescouslander's got it. Lots of TVs are listed as HDR, when they can't actually manage to put out a real HDR image - there's a bigger difference between the blackest blacks, and the lightest whites, which means they (we'll stick with LED and ignore OLED) need brighter backlighting, and better local control. Lots of TVs listed as HDR, don't actually go bright enough to really be an HDR image.

Throwing away your money. 4K is completely pointless on any TV below 65" unless you're sat on top of it

You say this a lot, but by your own graph, it's 5 or 6 feet for a 55 inch TV. How far away is OP?

Spend it on a 1080p OLED or Plasma instead

Where can one buy this 'plasma' you speak of? I still think OLED is too immature at the moment BTW. I'm (was) a plasma fan BTW and agree with you about contrast and colour. LED panels have come a long way though.

DEBTMONKEY1A

Almillar-thanks as ever. So...in your opinion worth paying extra for a Sony/Samsung etc???? HDR not 'really' that important? I'll be getting a 49 or 55 inch tv & (not measured but guessing) sit around 6.75-8 ft away from screen. How good do 4K films on compressed files look (realise HEVC needed but have a box with this on). Will take on board re: HDMI.

So....the cheaper Finlux/ElectriQ (which has an LG panel on 49 & a Samsung on 55 inch-so I understand) not worth the saving for my viewing habits (no hard core gaming/sports).

Do you/does anyone know if SKY or freeview/sat do UHD for ITV/BBC 1 etc???

Also....if I do get a smart TV-can I DIRECTLY load say kodi on to TV without need for an android box??? & sorry to be thick-any files on that if downloaded to tv & in 4k format will play in 4k format???

Will I REALLY not notice any difference to full HD 1080P as mentioned & will it improve my sky so called HD (sure it's just upscaled on some content) or look exactly the same????

System

DEBTMONKEY1A wrote: »

Thanks all! Assume compressed files for 4k /ultra hd online that are on fireatick or kodi will look ok/good? Realise that even though its a 4k format it's compressed but surely it should look better tgan full hd/1080p? By the way we sit about 7 to 8 ft from acreen.In anyone's opinion is thw new HDR on newish sets worth paying extra for? So to clarify NO visible improvement on HD channwls on tv, evwn though up scaled? Thanks all again for your help.

Compressed files will still look terrible if they're compressed too much. A 2GB 4K file will look much worse than a 700MB 1080p file. HDR is still not standardised so there are a few competing ways of doing it.

How often do you change your TV? If its every few years I'd skip 4K for now and make the next one a 4K HDR because by then the standards will have been set and there will be more 4K content being broadcast other than Netflix and a bit of BT/Sky Sports.

Will I REALLY not notice any difference to full HD 1080P as mentioned & will it improve my sky so called HD (sure it's just upscaled on some content) or look exactly the same????

I can guarantee that if you took two 55" TVs, one a 1080p and the other 4K playing 1080p blurays or Sky TV and you sat 8ft away from them that you'd find it pretty much impossible to tell the difference and I can guarantee that if one of them was a decent 1080p OLED and the 4K was an LED that you'd choose the wrong one.

Sky can look very good on "standard" HD but sadly they cripple it. I watched Formula 1 on Sky F1HD which I recorded at the weekend and it looked amazing. Why? The file size tells you all you need to know. For the F1 race show which was 185 minutes it used 9.2% HDD space. For HD TV programmes no matter what the channel it uses typically 1.1-1.6% per hour. That is how compressed Sky HD is for the most part.

DEBTMONKEY1A

Hi Tarambor-thanks! Will have to measure distance....may be lest than 8 feet!!! Also take on board what you're saying re: 4k file sizes. Agree that SKY 'full HD' to me seems compressed & not blu-ray-ish quality. Only a few programmes like Dr Who, X-factor...etc seem REALLY sharp & clear....but still not 'quite' to the same sharpness as say my Casino Royale Blue ray played on an LG blue ray player (6 yrs old)-the opening jumping about on cranes, etc & explosions are pin sharp!

Having said that-I'm also VERY impressed with the clarity of some Kodi films on full 1080p-sure if shown 'side by side' with genuine uncompressed blue ray disc a tiny difference I'm sure but watched the new mad max in 1080p on kodi-very, very good & deffo 100% better than standard definition DVD.

My present TV is a REGZA 42/43 inch 1080p-bought refurb 6 years ago-very very pleased with it.

What made all the difference was calibrating (setting) all the colours/contrasts etc-plently of free downloads on line to burn to disc (saw same thing in PC World for £60 a dvd!)-pretty damn easy & makes the world of difference.

donnajunkie

My dad got this in a sale and what I can say is it has the best picture quality we have ever had with a tv.it maybe a bit pricey at the moment for some though.
http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-and-home-entertainment/televisions/televisions/lg-49uh850v-smart-3d-4k-ultra-hd-hdr-49-led-tv-10144245-pdt.html

almillar

Almillar-thanks as ever. So...in your opinion worth paying extra for a Sony/Samsung etc???? HDR not 'really' that important?

HDR IS important in my opinion, but to do it properly is still very expensive. There are plenty of TVs that can process the numbers on HDR, but lack the lighting technology to actually pull it off. You're still getting the 4K resolution of course, so it's still an upgrade, just be aware and weigh up the cost/benefit. Sony/Samsung - I like both, and others. I'd be digging deeper into the specs though rather than just picking a brand.

How good do 4K films on compressed files look (realise HEVC needed but have a box with this on)

That depends how much they're compressed, doesn't it?! Same for HD, and same for SD, to be honest. DVDs can still look great, because althoug their resolution is only 500-odd lines, they're so lightly compressed. Netflix and Amazon at least are great for me with HD, but of course you need a good WiFi and broadband connection.

So....the cheaper Finlux/ElectriQ (which has an LG panel on 49 & a Samsung on 55 inch-so I understand) not worth the saving for my viewing habits (no hard core gaming/sports).

That's up to you, as above, at least now you're aware.

Do you/does anyone know if SKY or freeview/sat do UHD for ITV/BBC 1 etc???

They don't, and there are no plans to. Sky have some UHD channels (F1 for example) but there's nothing on Freeview or Freesat, and don't expect that to change for years.

Also....if I do get a smart TV-can I DIRECTLY load say kodi on to TV without need for an android box??? & sorry to be thick-any files on that if downloaded to tv & in 4k format will play in 4k format???

If it's actually an Android TV, you SHOULD be able to. What you can play will be down to the file types that your TV can play. And if it's Android, and has the Play Store, VLC would cover most file types.

Will I REALLY not notice any difference to full HD 1080P as mentioned & will it improve my sky so called HD (sure it's just upscaled on some content) or look exactly the same????

How's your eyesight? Sky can't really look much better - you're receiving 1080 line of information. The TV can play with it a bit, but it's like zooming in on a photo, there's no more detail in the picture. It'll look better because of display and/or processing improvements. Maybe!

donnajunkie

Sky does not have any uhd channels. If you have sky q you can watch premier league football in 4K if you have the sport channels by hitting the red button.
And they do have some 4K movies in on demand but again only if you have the movie channels.

paddyrg

The insides and details of digital TV are complex, people want to sell new televisions, so they simplify what's going on inside into a few numbers they can advertise (1080i/P/4k/8k...) which look good on adverts (more dots is better! Must buy!) but only tell a partial story. Don't rely on anyone who is trying to sell you something for impartial advice ;-)

ALL televisions make up picture information. What gets broadcast isn't a stream of video, it's a stream of instructions for the processor to create an image. MPEG4/5 streams are used, and they're the equivalent of telling you to draw a circle with two other circles at the halfway line and a line with a particular arrangement instead of sending you a picture of a face. This saves transmission bandwidth, which saves broadcasters money. So far, so good. What happens, though, is that they take it to the very limit they can get away with before people stop giving them money.

Netflix streaming needs 2Mbps for a 4k video image. A native 4k image straight from the camera sensor is actually around 720Mbps, so the data needs to be compressed down to one third of one percent of the original. The maths behind it is remarkable, and the pictures do look impressive considering, but that's at the expense of throwing away almost all of the picture information. The choice of upscaler is important as it plays a role in trying to guess what the missing information is, in order to show it!

Most people don't know how to tell a good from a lousy image, they use pixel count, they use saturation as proxies, but looking around a screen here's how to see how good they are. ***SPOILER ALERT*** read the following at your own risk - it'll mean you'll start seeing flaws quickly, and if you're not really bothered skip ahead to the next stars below somewhere...

Two really easy ways to see how well an image is compressed are on smooth gradients and around lettering on screen. Smooth gradients (light across a smooth wall, for instance) should smoothly​ transition from shade to shade, in highly compressed images you'll see bands of one colour then if the next colour. Next look at any letters that appear in an image - are the edges crisp, or can you see "mosquitoes​" around them? There's a slightly more subtle effect when you see an actor's face in close up, and they are moving a little bit, but patches of their face seem to be disconnected and move slightly independently of the head. When you see it, you'll see it, and realise you saw it all along.

***END OF ME RUINING YOUR WATCHING EXPERIENCE***

What this all means at the end of the day is that more pixels isn't a measure of a better picture, just now dots that the TV has to invent detail for, and even higher compression, so actually not a particularly great experience. The demo films in TV shops try to show off the very best they can, least compressed they can, and yet many still look awful once you know how to tell.

My 2p - Save your money, let the mugs rush in and sell their old, decent 1080p TV's cheap, and watch those until you absolutely have to upgrade, and then pick up a great 4k set for cheap as they all rush into 4kHDR or 8k. I'm a keen technologist, I always buy flagship latest greatest phones, I ought to be the core audience for TV technology, but it's such a swizz I can't condone it.