where do our taxes go!

lancs-lad_5

mpython,
I cannot be bothered to reply to your 9 points when you make a statement like " I accept your point though that as an overall %, we are highly taxed but I don't think its due to EU membership. As a % of labour, or of consumption, our tax rates actually went down between 1995 and 2005"

What planet are you on!,

I have used this site many times, what Martin is doing is fantastic, we are at the moment chasing Yorkshire bank for the refund of excessive charges,

I just wanted to get over the amount of tax we in this country pay and the amount waisted, hence the link i attached, if you want to turn a blind eye on where you taxes are being spent then that your prerogative, i think a more likely answer is that you must be a Labour supporter ?.

You cannot get away from the fact that the amount we are paying in taxes in this country is linked to the amount we are contributing to the EU coffers (and it's only going to get worse),

I stated earlier, to bring all the last 10 countries who joined up to our standard Will cost billions, were do you think this money comes from, THE OTHER MEMBER COUNTRIES and were will they get the money from THE TAXES PAYERS.
The fact that we in this country are now paying child allowance to children in Poland, were do you think the Works and Pensions department are getting the money from, you got it ,WE THE TAX PAYERS OF THIS COUNTRY. and as soon as the other migrant of the other member countrys latch on to this "nice little earner" they will be claiming it too. and our taxes will go up again to pay for it!!.

I could go on and on but i may as well talk to a brick wall than talk to somebody who head is buried in the sand.

Regards
PS, whitenight639, thanks for your comments.

PPS How much extra tax is the chancellor putting on fuel this week, 2.5pence per gallon i belive.
I rest my case melord!!!

mpython

Hi Lancslad, I think I'm on the same planet as you, but whereas you chose to believe the things you want to believe, I'm willing to look at the data and draw my own conclusions. & whereas you can't be bothered to reply to my 9 points, I replied to each of yours.

If you click on the link in my previous post you will find the data that shows our tax burden as a % of labour and consumption has gone down. Whether you believe it or not is up to you.

I don't turn a blind eye to where my taxes are spent and having taken account of that, exercise the same democratic right as you do at election time. Who I vote for is my business, thankfully we still have secret ballots in this country and I'm not at all interested in who you vote for.

I believe you are incorrect in your statement that the amount we are paying in taxes in this country is linked to the amount we are contributing to the EU coffers. Please can you refer me to the legislation you are quoting from? I note you have also not answered my first question. How much do we actually contribute, and how much do we gain from EU? (your assesment need to take acount of all the trade & benefits from the EU)

You repeat your point about the 10 new states. Perhaps you can answer me why our GDP has been growing consistently between 2% and 2.5% both before and after the last enlargement of the EU?

What evidence do you have for your statement that we are paying child benefit to children in Poland? Was it a trusted Daily Mail source?

lancs-lad_5

Because the EU is heavily engaged in self promoting and i have said (and you agree )the accounts have not and will not be signed off because of the inconsistency's, i dot not believe any of the figures the produce.

Regarding the child benefits, it was not a national paper but on national TV.
Take a look at this gov site.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/childbenefit/ch5_notes.pdf

this is on page 5:

"Coming to the United Kingdom
You can normally get Child Benefit if you and the child or children
you are responsible for usually live in the UK. Short absences abroad
will not affect your right to Child Benefit and some people may have
the right to Child Benefit even if they do not live in the UK. There
are also some extra rules about".

right to reside.

These rules may affect your right to get Child Benefit and we
explain them below.

If you are one of the hundreds of thousand (the guv don't know how many have entered this country )of migrant and get a job sweeping the streets , you then qualify for all the benefits, child allowance , income support , free school meals, rent support etc etc, they have not paid it to these benefits, it obviously then falls on the tax payer who have paid it to it, but because of the extra thousand of claimants the figures don't add up hence the need to raise more taxes to pay for the extra claimants, simple maths i would have thought, however this government wants to dress it up !!!.
You say the influx of migrant workers have benefited this country , i beg to differ, as a Transport Manager with one of the larges fleets in the country i have had first hand experience with foreign workers, some of these workers who are allowed to drive in this country on their EU LGV license should not be on the road, and speaking to family and friends in the building trade , just like electricians, gas fitters, etc, they have not been trained to our standards,i have experienced Polish, Ukraine, Romanian drivers who cannot and should not be behind the wheel of a 40 tonne truck and i would be worried if any of my family where on the same bit of road , their driving standards are very poor and i speak as a qualified LGV training/assessor, but i digress.

mpython

Lancslad, you appear to have real trouble understanding English, maths & economics.

In one of my previous posts I agreed the accounts had not been signed off, but I didn't say why they weren't signed off.

At least you have the honesty to admit that you do not believe any of the figures but if you won't discuss the numbers (& you've yet to quantify the costs versus the benefits of EU membership) then you really cannot be taken seriously and have no case to argue.

I appreciate the link and quote, however, although the para suggests there may be exceptions, the primary rule is You can normally get Child Benefit if you and the child or children you are responsible for usually live in the UK

I note you haven't provided any names of Polish families that are defrauding the system as per your claim in a previous post.

I believe you are mistaken in your claim that migrant workers are automatically entitled to benefits but hey, you haven't bothered to check whether your views are true before you posted them here.

You use the example of a person sweeping the streets as proof of abuse. You haven't thought it through though have you? The road sweeper is employed and pays taxes & NI and spends some or all of their residual earnings in the local economy. If that person is from UK, then they will have consumed NHS costs (birth, medicine, GPs), Council Costs (Schools, sports) and any number of others before they contribute to the UK economy by road sweeping. If that person is from outside UK, then they will contribute to the UK economy without having consumed any of the 'development or training' costs. I presume even you can see the maths there?

You claim to have first hand knowledge of migrant workers. Well so have I, as well as UK national workers. I have found the same mix of abilities and skills in both groups. Some people are good employees & colleagues, some are not. That's life.

My brother runs a large building firm in London and his experience is completely opposite to yours. The influx of good quality skilled labour has been a life saver and benefited his firm and the companies he has contract withs.

I don't doubt your claim there are poor drivers from abroad, but the UK road deaths & serious injuries figures show how bad UK drivers are too - in the most recent figures, the government has kindly produced a table that shows the numbers involving overseas drivers. But before you seize on it as support for your arguements (remember you don't believe the figures) compare it to the pre- EU enlargement figures, and see if you can spot the impact.

Clearly we are never going to agree on whether EU membership is a good thing for UK or not.

If, however, you are really serious about reducing the UK tax burden, I would suggest that you look at how the money is raised and spent and then talk to your MP. I have already suggested Civil Servant pensions (which are final salary and extremely low contributions - take a wild guess at how much they will cost us in 2020) would be one area worth looking at, and reviewing how firms that makes millions from UK resisdents can pay so little tax. Other areas worthy of review are fraud within the benefits system (£3Bn pa when I last looked), sick pay entitlements, employing business consultants, Government IT & Defence projects, tons of quangoes...the list can be almost as long as you like. Once you get a handle on the figures I'd be delighted to hear your views.

lancs-lad_5

mpython wrote: »

Lancslad, you appear to have real trouble understanding English, maths & economics.

In one of my previous posts I agreed the accounts had not been signed off, but I didn't say why they weren't signed off.

At least you have the honesty to admit that you do not believe any of the figures but if you won't discuss the numbers (& you've yet to quantify the costs versus the benefits of EU membership) then you really cannot be taken seriously and have no case to argue.

I appreciate the link and quote, however, although the para suggests there may be exceptions, the primary rule is You can normally get Child Benefit if you and the child or children you are responsible for usually live in the UK

I note you haven't provided any names of Polish families that are defrauding the system as per your claim in a previous post.

I believe you are mistaken in your claim that migrant workers are automatically entitled to benefits but hey, you haven't bothered to check whether your views are true before you posted them here.

You use the example of a person sweeping the streets as proof of abuse. You haven't thought it through though have you? The road sweeper is employed and pays taxes & NI and spends some or all of their residual earnings in the local economy. If that person is from UK, then they will have consumed NHS costs (birth, medicine, GPs), Council Costs (Schools, sports) and any number of others before they contribute to the UK economy by road sweeping. If that person is from outside UK, then they will contribute to the UK economy without having consumed any of the 'development or training' costs. I presume even you can see the maths there?

You claim to have first hand knowledge of migrant workers. Well so have I, as well as UK national workers. I have found the same mix of abilities and skills in both groups. Some people are good employees & colleagues, some are not. That's life.

My brother runs a large building firm in London and his experience is completely opposite to yours. The influx of good quality skilled labour has been a life saver and benefited his firm and the companies he has contract withs.

I don't doubt your claim there are poor drivers from abroad, but the UK road deaths & serious injuries figures show how bad UK drivers are too - in the most recent figures, the government has kindly produced a table that shows the numbers involving overseas drivers. But before you seize on it as support for your arguements (remember you don't believe the figures) compare it to the pre- EU enlargement figures, and see if you can spot the impact.

Clearly we are never going to agree on whether EU membership is a good thing for UK or not.

If, however, you are really serious about reducing the UK tax burden, I would suggest that you look at how the money is raised and spent and then talk to your MP. I have already suggested Civil Servant pensions (which are final salary and extremely low contributions - take a wild guess at how much they will cost us in 2020) would be one area worth looking at, and reviewing how firms that makes millions from UK resisdents can pay so little tax. Other areas worthy of review are fraud within the benefits system (£3Bn pa when I last looked), sick pay entitlements, employing business consultants, Government IT & Defence projects, tons of quangoes...the list can be almost as long as you like. Once you get a handle on the figures I'd be delighted to hear your views.

I think you have hit the nail on the head "Clearly we are never going to agree on whether EU membership is a good thing for UK or not." it's a well known fact if you are good with figures you can make them fit any argument.

With regards to IT & Defence projects and Quangoes you are spot on and I totally agree with you, most of which is down to the present government.

I love Europe but hate the EU !!!
Regards

whitenight639

mpython wrote: »

Hi Lancslad, I think I'm on the same planet as you, but whereas you chose to believe the things you want to believe, I'm willing to look at the data and draw my own conclusions.

obviously not you only watched 2mins of the aforementioned video.
I'm a moderator of other forums, but i could never moderate on a forum with this much ignorance, and don't get me wrong your intelligent but still benighted.

m_c_s

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpython I have already suggested Civil Servant pensions (which are final salary and extremely low contributions - take a wild guess at how much they will cost us in 2020) would be one area worth looking at


Very easy to say, and who will make up the salary difference between what civil servants are paid and equivalent salary in industry, not to mention funding the above inflation increases yearly to match industry? The civil service pension makes up for the poor pay and other conditions of service.

Andy_L

m_c_s wrote: »

The civil service pension makes up for the poor pay and other conditions of service.

The pension AND conditions of service make up for the poor pay (arguably, in some cases, more than make up for)

mpython

whitenight639 wrote: »

obviously not you only watched 2mins of the aforementioned video.
I'm a moderator of other forums, but i could never moderate on a forum with this much ignorance, and don't get me wrong your intelligent but still benighted.

Benighted???? Do you know the entymolgy of the word? From the European enlightment - I find that so ironic. Do you get many users on the boards you moderate, or is it limited to just those of a similar viewpoint. Maybe if you had a better command of the English language you might not have embarressed yourself so much with your contribution. I've corrected some of it below.

O[strike]o[/strike]bviously not you; only watched 2mins of the aforementioned video.
I'm a moderator of other forums, but I[strike]i[/strike] could never moderate on a forum with this much ignorance, and don't get me wrong you're [strike]your[/strike] intelligent but still benighted.

mpython

Apologies M_C_S, I wasn't picking on civil servants per se (see my earlier post), just trying to get Lancs-Lad to understand where taxes go.