where do our taxes go!

jamalfatty

Has Jim Davidson joined MSE?!

lancs-lad_5

jamalfatty wrote: »

Has Jim Davidson joined MSE?!

if the cap fits I'll wear it, I'm proud to be English not European.

mpython

Lets take those points in turn shall we?

1) leaving Europe (I presume you mean EU rather than joining a different continent?) would save this country billions - so how much do you spend on Money Exchange when (if) you visit Europe? How much trade do we do with Europe that would be subject to new import taxes? How much do we actually contribute, and how much do we gain from EU? & how does that compare to the cost of, say, the regional assemblies? In my opinion, we'd have higher UK taxes, higher consumption costs & less employment if we left the EU.

2) It is going to cost billions to bring the 10 latest joiners up to our standard - what's that got to do with the price of fish? Isn't there billions to be made for UK & other EU countries in helping them upgrade? just look at the number of UK companies already trading in Poland, Baltic States etc

3)We're taxed to the hilt - What rate of taxation do you think is fair? What would you spend it on? What would you do without the tax paid by other EU nationals working here that is keeping farming, building and many other businesses going?

4) I want to spend my hard earned money on my family - no one is stopping you, its my choice what I spend my money on after having paid my UK taxes.

5) with people like you (tree hugging do gooder's) around, it feels like "the lunatics have taken over the asylum" - why resort to insults? What evidence do you have for me being a tree hugger?

6) As an Englishman i don't ever remember being asked if i would like MY country to become multicultural!!!. - As an Englishman, I don't remeber being asked if its OK to share England with xenophobes. Perhaps if you'd paid more attention in history, you'd know that the UK has always been multicultural. If you watch the TV occasionally you can catch up with some of the bigger historical events such as Britain being invaded & run by Rome (that's in Italy), or by Normans (they're from France), or Vikings & Saxons (Scandanivian & Germany - oh, & BTW, you'll find over 80% of people who think of themselves as English actually share DNA ancestory with Germany from the time of that invasion when the majority of indigineous population was put to the sword). I'm originally from the East End of London, and Jews, Germans, Irish, Greek, Italians, West Indians, Bengalis, Polish and many others have all formed communities there in the last 200 years - its been multicultural long before you were born.

7) you say you are for Europe, at the moment we still have some free speech left and you are entitled to your opinion, although as Europe gets bigger and bigger the powers that be, will control us more and more - I'd be happy to leave this as a difference of opinion but you make baseless accusations as well as trying to rope people into watching a 2hr lecture. The arguements you are repeating are the ones I heard before Ted Heath took us unto the EEC, yet we've managed to survive & thrive because of our closer ties to Europe. If you're worried about control of your life, I'd be a bit more worried about closer to home, things like ID cards, local councils having 100s of more laws allowing them to enter your property, O, & of course, making it a crime to protest within 1mile of parliament (without permision) - I don't recall the EU parliament mandating that.

8) i know this government has brought in more stealth taxes that any previous governments and the reason is to meet our ever increasing burden to the EU coffers. - Please can you detail the stealth taxes rather than repeating tabloid phrases. There are a lot more taxes and whilst I'm not personally a fan of the current government, I'm sure they'd say, to put more money into the NHS & Schools. If you're so worried about taxesm why are you not picking on civil servant's pensions the cost of which is growing phenomally. (No offence to civil servant MSErs intended, just pointing out where large parts of the tax & NI go). Or what about companies like SkyTV, which pays very little UK tax?

9) Its a well know fact that the accountants will not sign off the EU finance books because they cannot account for billions of Euros - its true that the accounts were not signed off, but then NHS trust grants are sometimes not signed off, does that mean people should not use them?

maninthestreet

The British people have never been asked, in a referendum, whether they wanted to join the EU. The referendum we had in 1975 asked the British people whether they wanted Britain to continue being a member of the EEC - the EU never existed in 1975.
Britain could leave the EU, but still be part of the EFTA and so trade freely with countries still in the EU.
With regards to immigration, this country is currentlyexperiencing levels of immigration far greater than any experienced in the past. This country's infrastructure simply cannot cope with this level of immigration, it's only common sense that the level of immigration should be reduced significantly.
As for immigrants from the EU contributing significantly to the UK economy - does £1 per person, per week sound like a significant contribution?
As for the current level of taxation, stealth or otherwise, the percentage of the country's wealth taken by the government in the form of taxes is at an historical high, but all the extra revenue that has been poured into the NHS and Education has not resulted in the improvements that were expected.

mpython

Hi maninthestreet, nice to have a rational contribution to the thread.

The only parties (AFAIK) that have campaigned for a referundum are the UKIP and SWP (happy to stand corrected). Neither has ever received enough of the popular vote to return an MP to the UK parliament and therefore one could argue that its not a big enough issue for the vast majority of the UK population to be concerned about - though another viewpoint could call it apathy - however there has been the choice to express views on the EU at the last few General Elections.

I'm afraid I'm struggling with your arguements about immigration. Why is it only common sense? I see no arguement, other than self- interest for the restriction of immigration. Would you be happy to see the wholescale repatriation of all those who have left the UK, along with their increased NHS care bills, rather than the healthy, pro-work ethic, immigration we have seen from the new EU states?

Please can you explain how an EU national, providing much needed plumbing or dental services only contributes £1 a week to the UK economy. Or a fruit picker, or warehouse fork-lift operator.

Please can you quote me the source of your statement of the current level of taxation is at an historical high. & if true, how so many international companies can earn so much income from the UK, but pay so little tax - the same question goes for individuals earning, say, over £1m a year?

maninthestreet

http://www.taxreformcommission.com/report.php

http://www.migrationwatchuk.com/outline_of_the_problem.asp

whitenight639

mpython wrote: »

Hi maninthestreet, nice to have a rational contribution to the thread.

The only parties (AFAIK) that have campaigned for a referundum are the UKIP and SWP (happy to stand corrected). Neither has ever received enough of the popular vote to return an MP to the UK parliament and therefore one could argue that its not a big enough issue for the vast majority of the UK population to be concerned about - though another viewpoint could call it apathy - however there has been the choice to express views on the EU at the last few General Elections.

I'm afraid I'm struggling with your arguements about immigration. Why is it only common sense? I see no arguement, other than self- interest for the restriction of immigration. Would you be happy to see the wholescale repatriation of all those who have left the UK, along with their increased NHS care bills, rather than the healthy, pro-work ethic, immigration we have seen from the new EU states?

Please can you explain how an EU national, providing much needed plumbing or dental services only contributes £1 a week to the UK economy. Or a fruit picker, or warehouse fork-lift operator.

Please can you quote me the source of your statement of the current level of taxation is at an historical high. & if true, how so many international companies can earn so much income from the UK, but pay so little tax - the same question goes for individuals earning, say, over £1m a year?

listen monty, have you even watched the video in the link lanc-boy posted?
If so you wouldn't be making challenging comments/ questions, Do me a favor take 2hrs out of your Soap watching time and go watch that video, you'll thank me for it later!
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...73594&hl=en-GB

mpython

Thanks for the links maninthestreet. The taxreform website has some interesting points but as far as I can see, it does not link high taxation with membership of the EU. It primarily argues for a simplification of the UK tax regime. Personally I think the lessons of the US are a good enough reason not to blindly follow that route.

As to the other website, well, I think this website just about debunks all its claims.

http://www.asylumsupport.info/migrationwatchuk.htm#lies

Hello whiteknight, welcome to MSE, hope you enjoy it here. How come you stumbled upon this thread out of the hundreds of thousands of other posts? Also, what evidence do you have for my name being monty? Was it a prejudiced assumption on your part? Or, why you think I watch soaps - was it another rash assumption?

I'm quite happy to admit that when this thread started I didn't watch the video because Lancs Lad would was not open or honest enough to say what it was about. Following maninthestreets contribution I have now viewed it for a full 2 mins and it is simply awful. A handheld camera with dreadful sound quality. So I don't think I'll be thanking you for it later.

Enjoy the rest of the forums.

maninthestreet

mpython wrote: »

Thanks for the links maninthestreet. The taxreform website has some interesting points but as far as I can see, it does not link high taxation with membership of the EU. It primarily argues for a simplification of the UK tax regime. Personally I think the lessons of the US are a good enough reason not to blindly follow that route.

As to the other website, well, I think this website just about debunks all its claims.

http://www.asylumsupport.info/migrationwatchuk.htm#lies

Hello whiteknight, welcome to MSE, hope you enjoy it here. How come you stumbled upon this thread out of the hundreds of thousands of other posts? Also, what evidence do you have for my name being monty? Was it a prejudiced assumption on your part? Or, why you think I watch soaps - was it another rash assumption?

I'm quite happy to admit that when this thread started I didn't watch the video because Lancs Lad would was not open or honest enough to say what it was about. Following maninthestreets contribution I have now viewed it for a full 2 mins and it is simply awful. A handheld camera with dreadful sound quality. So I don't think I'll be thanking you for it later.

Enjoy the rest of the forums.

I never linked tax levels with EU membership.

Asylum and Immigration are not the same, though they are often confused.

mpython

Thanks maninthestreet.

This thread was started by Lancslad whose position is our taxes are higher than if we were not part of the EU. I disagree with that proposition, I accept your point though that as an overall %, we are highly taxed but I don't think its due to EU membership. As a % of labour, or of consumption, our tax rates actually went down between 1995 and 2005, though when capital is taken into account it increased from 35.6 to 37%. For comparison France's 2005 rate was 44%, Denmark was 50.4%, whereas Lithuania was 28.9% and Slovakia was 29.3%. (source - http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/pls/portal/docs/PAGE/PGP_PRD_CAT_PREREL/PGE_CAT_PREREL_YEAR_2007/PGE_CAT_PREREL_YEAR_2007_MONTH_06/2-26062007-EN-AP.PDF) So why would such low tax economies want to join the EU with the prospect of higher taxes unless it was in their long term national interest?

I fully agree with you that asylum and immigration are not the same thing. But that doesn't mean the critque of immigrationwatchUK's arguements is wrong.