The Great Hunt: Help others if you've been an executor of a will

getmore4less

ThemeOne wrote: »

I received a lot of advice about getting multiple copies of the death certificate - a friend suggested 20, which I think has also been recommended in this thread.

When I said 20 to the Registrar she nearly fell off her chair, and asked did I really need that many. We had a bit of a talk about how many I might need in reality, and in the end settled for 12, and based on how it all panned out even that was an over-estimate.

It obviously depends on the deceased's circumstances, and better too many than too few, but if you're unsure I did find the Registrar was genuinely helpful and appreciated her advice.

One Master copy for the file, one copy for each executor to carry when doing any walk ins to notify, and one per institution that need to be done by post is more than enough, you get them back, so unless you are ready to fire off a letter to everyone off the bat a few will do as some can go round the loop a few times and some places will be happy with a copy for notification.

SuzzyBlue

Sadly I have had to act as executor to my mother's, husbands and more recently father's will. One thing that I found helpful was to make sure that you have plenty of copies of the Death Certificate, everyone will want to see an original copy. Also if there are any insurance policies or pensions that will be paying out to the spouse or dependent children you will need to provide copies of their birth and/or marriage certificates too. You can be ordering up these documents any time.

SuzzyBlue

Don't be afraid to apply for probate yourself. If you are capable of completing a tax return then you are capable of applying for probate. This can save you/the estate many thousands of pounds.

The hardest part is gathering together the information regarding the deceased assets. Once you know where they had their money and assets, you just need to be methodical and contact each organisation in turn.

annyssong

Loads of good advice here, as always in these forums. I've acted twice as legal representative for a deceased estate; one many years ago for my mother, and just a few years back for my best beloved. Although my mother had been divorced and left no will, all we children knew she would have wanted us to have equal shares, and it was even then before the days of the internet very easy to get the appropriate forms and apply to be the personal representative responsible for gathering the paperwork, filling in the forms, and eventually dividing what was left in this world. No solicitor needed.
On the more recent occasion, we were deliberately unmarried, in part because we were planning to retire to a sunnier European climate and my partner had children from a previous marriage. We were advised to have entirely separate wills in each country, and at the UK end also to beware of the phrase which is used almost universally which revokes all previous wills - leave that in, and all your careful tax planning could be in vain in one or the other country. As this was some years ago, I do know that in France, for example, the forced heirship laws have since been changed twice, and so as ever please do be aware of legal changes and update your will when necessary.
As it happened very suddenly my partner died very shortly after having taken out money on his credit card to pay for a daughter's wedding, most of which was outstanding, and there was not enough in his remaining estate to repay this. You can get an excellent Probate Pack by post from the probate office, which includes all the necessary Govt forms and a thorough reading of these provides a framework for what you need to do. The Tell Us Once service is excellent. However, as the estate netted out would be less than £5k, HMRC practically begged me not to complete their form, which is needed before the application for probate can be made, as no tax was due and no probate necessary. The Probate Office confirmed this, and the only practical effect this had was that the will remains unpublished, as this is the only means by which it is officially made public. I gave all interested parties a copy of his will, and ensured that each received the personal possessions of his ("chattels") that he had wanted them to have. As the debt was unsecured, and we had had no joint financial arrangements, I was not required to repay it to the credit card company as the executor.
Apologies for this long post, I do hope it helps someone because I found it virtually impossible to find out what should happen about the debt even from the CAB, whose solicitor seemed amazed that I should even consider it necessary to repay any debt. Perhaps it's my age!

happyinflorida

One thing I would like to add here in view of most comments saying save money by not using a solicitor - they can at times be good to use.

Apart from the fact that they have more knowledge, when my parents made mirror wills which named the solicitor who made the wills as executor - I wasn't happy.

BUT - I have to say after everything, they have proved useful and made a lot more money than I would have done.

My parents house was in a poor condition but houses in the road usually sold for a high price. We got 3 estate agents in to give a price of what the house was worth - 2 of them were well established and I thought, reputable. All 3 said the house was worth between £3 to £350K - the solicitors used a small estate agent that I'd never heard of before who got £525K - so a small fortune would have been lost if the solicitor's had not of been involved.

Probate has so far cost around £10K and it's still not finished with - apparently HMRC won't confirm that they're happy that all tax has been paid, so it's been 9 months so far!!

At times I find the sols annoying but with the large sum of money they've made, I have to say, on the whole, I am very glad they were involved.

alittlemadam

i dealt with my with all the paperwork for Probate on behalf of my mom when my dad passed away. Initially yes the forms seems quite daunting but I did manage to get my head around everything.


Please remember just because you have a Will doesn't mean you wont need probate, probate is to prove that any monies should be passed to you so its all above board


When it come to things like this there are many companies who want to make there money, please don't be fooled.


Fill in the forms and either contact the Probate Service or the Bereavement Centre most helpful. they will advise on what needs to be done and if there is anything outstanding they will ask you for further evidence. There is no need to be fleeced by these companies.


We looked into a large company doing it for us they want nearly £8000 and said that it would take at least 12 months, however it took me 3 months (mainly because I couldn't get my head round the form) but looking back probate actually took 6 weeks from start to finish and a total cost of £300.

sacherlover

I have written my simple Wills for myself, my partner and his Mother. We have just completed Probate on her Estate.

I have been very disappointed with ‘High Street’ solicitors for wills. If your Will is simple, you will probably do a better job yourself.

If you use a solicitor, check everything word by word, line by line.

If using a solicitor for a Will, consider looking for one with the STEP (Society fo Trustees and Estates Practitioners) qualification – they will have specific experience.

I would agree with many of the other posters – really consider DIY Probate, unless it is a particularly complex Estate. You will end up doing 98% of the donkey work and the solicitors charge a lot and drag their feet.

I also found a solicitor who will do as much or as little of the probate process as you need: Google the probate department Pevensey

Useful knowledge I have accumulated during time:
Consider having at least one Executor who is a lot younger than you – even a generation younger. They don’t have to do the actual work, but they can then control a solicitor if they decide to use one.

Otherwise as you get older you may be endlessly having to choose new Executors if you outlast them.

Get multiple copies of both Death Certificate and Grant of Probate Certificates – probably 10 Death Certificates and 3 or 4 Probate Certificates.

One poster mentioned that his Father made everything so much simpler by spending an hour every year (at Christmas as it was when the family got together) going over his main assets and what his wishes were. Great point and it would help if we all did this for our family.

As you get older, consider simplifying your accounts etc. with this in mind.

With Wills, as a minimum think who you want to leave money to, who next if they pre-decease you, and finally consider leaving it to a charity (the Government has already had enough of my money). Another useful tip – my chosen charity is small, so there is provision to cover what happens if they no longer exist.

If you are a couple, consider having everything in joint names (even if you keep sole access to cheque books / debit cards / online access). That will prevent needing Probate on first death just because someone has one sole account with a fair amount of money.

The TellUsOnce service was really useful, it cut down the number of organisations we had to contact directly.

Cut down on the junk mail. I have printed out sheets of labels that say: Would you please save your money and my time and REMOVE my name and address from your Mailing List.

Where it is obviously junk mail, I just slap a label on the envelope and put it back in the post box. Much simpler than having to write stuff every time.

If there is a property, check that buildings insurance is still valid. Most policies are invalid if the property is empty (someone not sleeping there overnight) for more than 30 days. You may also have to keep the heating on from October to April. We found Saga Insurance much more flexible than many.

If there is a property, don’t clear the bulk of the furniture until you get past Exchange of Contracts. You can always insist on having a few weeks between Exchange and Completion to give you time to clear the big stuff. You don’t want to clear furniture early and have the sale fall through late in the process. Empty homes don’t sell so easily – many people find it hard to accurately size rooms without furniture in it.

VillageIdiot

p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 120%; } If MSE writes a guide about being an Executor of a will, can you please cover the following, which none of the posts so far have covered.


1 – GIFTS
1a. How are gifts taken into account, IN PRACTICE. We know what the regulations say, but how much effort must the executors make to discover and analyse items and sums of money that may or may not count as gifts, from several years ago?


1b. If co-habiting people split up, and one then dies, do some of the expenses during the co-habiting period, when their spending was inter-entwined, such as mortgage payments, cars, holidays, count as gifts?


1c. If someone bought a car five years ago for £10,000, and later SOLD IT to someone for £1, or £100, or £1,000, does this count as a gift? What if the “car” was a horse. How does the executor value a horse for IHT at the point when it was “given away”?


1d. If someone gives their daughter, who is getting married next year, £5,000 this year and £5,000 next year, can this count as wedding gifts? The .gov website says _
“Each tax year, you can also give away:

• wedding or civil ceremony gifts of up to….£5,000 for a child”

1e. If someone with an income £25,000 per year “maintains their standard of living” on £10,000 per year, can they legitimately give away £15,000 per year?

1f. In a nutshell; are lots of “blind eyes” turned?


2 – PROPERTY VALUATION
How is a property valued by a qualified surveyor for IHT purposes? In rural areas, properties take several years to sell, and the price depends hugely on whether a buyer can be found. Some houses just fall into dilapidation because no buyer ever materialises. If a buyer can be found, then the property could perhaps sell for well over the IHT threshold. In practice, it may perhaps never be sold, but may be rented out.

Yorkshireman99

On point 2 if the estate value is close to or above the IHT limit then a valuation by a RICS or similar is need. They will negotiate an agreed value. The only reason properties don't sell is if they are overpriced. If the value for probate is too high usually an adjustment can be agreed and a refund of IHT be give. Also remember that farms are exempt from IHT.

On the other points the executors need to make reasonable efforts to establish what are actual gifts. HMR&C can and do sometimes trawl back through the deceased' bank statements if they think the executors are taking the mickey. The onus is also really on the deceased to have kept accurate records.

Keep_pedalling

You can only use the gift in contemplation on marriage once for each child.

You could gift £15k of your £25k income away, but why would anyone with an estate falling into IHT territory want to live like a pauper?