After nearly 4 years, still on the same salary band...

madfrenchgirl

Hello Moneysavers!

I am in a bit of a situation where I think my employer is taking the michael a little too much.

Just to sum things up: I joined blue chip IT outsourcing consultancy company (a bit like IBM but not IBM) in may2004 as a junior for doing project administration at the client's site. Not a job I thoroughly enjoyed but I figured a blue chip company would give me opportunities to expand into business analysis (which is my real calling).

After being bollocked, treated like crap, victim of sexism (oh really, a female with a brain!) by several managers and or project managers, for about 2 years I finally managed to get a stab at a proper business analysis job, assisting someone a lot more senior, after a while I was not even assisting and left to carry out work on my own with very few orders.

The ont hing I need to point out is that i came into this new job without proper qualifications/accreditations, nor training, nor experience and I did the job as well as any other Business Analyst. In the end I got given my own projects and asked to correct the quality of the work of others (turned out there was more than quality issues to correct).

The company has been operating a new tool on this project and I am the only one left that knows how to use it. the aim of it is to model processes and I am the one advising on how we can fix the boo boos left by previous business analysts.

after a year of carrying out this job, and with a lot of support from senior management on the project (the client is a big British Defence company) who could not believe I was still a junior, I got refused promotion during my last appraisal.

The reaosn being the part of the company I belonged to (think different groups for different skills) wa snot the right one. Since they were taking care of a completely different skillset form the one I had been using doing business analysis, they were not in a position to recommend me for promotion. Plus me going to the other side had p!ssed them off already (I know this through chinese whispers).

Now I have managed (all by myself) to get transferred to the right part of the company. During the interview (yes there are interviews even though you are alreayd part of the company), I was told there was a round of promotions going this month and I could be considered if they deemed me worthy of joining their group. However, when I got the phonecall announcing me getting transferred, i got told that the powers that be decided it was too soon for me to be considered. I will ahve to wait until march-April, just like everybody else since it is the appraisal period, and any kind of extra monies will not touch my account until July. So another year of being paid on the same salary.

It is not that i desperately need the money: I cna live comfortably but still in a frugal way. One thing I need to point out is that the only other "juniors" in my company are the operations girls (arranging for laptops for new joiners, answering any questions, chasing people for their timesheets, booking conference rooms, acting as PA to Senior Mgmt, etc). While I do value their input into the company (and I used to do the same type of work), I have grown out of this type of work and people on different projects are asking for me to join their teams, and present solutions to the client and I feel I should be recognised for this.

By the time I could be up for promotion, it would have been 2 years doing business analysis but no reward for it: the only thing I got last year was a 2.5% increase (which doe snot even follow inflation). When my line manager told me about it (he acts as a tutor between different jobs and is the one doing your annual appraisal), he said : "here you go! Something to help paying your mortgage!" to which I could not help replying "I can pay for my mortgage just fine right now, thanks very much! I just would like to stay in hotel next time I go on holiday rather than a campsite".

I have just been for a job interview in London where they rejected me on the basis that 2 years business analysis was not enough experience. And looking at job specs out there, everybody wants a superman and paying 30k+ for it. I am just after a Business Analyst role, not a Senior or Business Architect, but these do not even seem to exist.

What am I to do? I know I have to stay with my current employer (just so I can pay my mortgage, ah ah) but I am really fed up being done by them at every opportunity they can get! Can someone tell me if this normal practice or am I seeing everything in black? is there any way I can go about getting a job at a similar level in a different company other than brwosing the job ads? I am even ready to travel to London for the right kind of job...

dmg24

If you want to stay at the same company, then you need to wait until your next appraisal to apply for promotion. Use your time until then gathering evidence of why you should be given the promotion.

Does seem pretty normal practice to me. Not good, but typical of many blue chips.

dmg24

Finally, don't use MSE or ANYTHING on their company networks. Trust no one. Just quietly and calming organise yourself. xx

Good advice. Sad that it comes to that in the workplace, but I will certainly take that attitude if I go back into the workplace x

nej

Similar situation here. For years I've been writing software for the company I work for, although my job title had never changed from it's original "support" role. A couple of years ago I was nearly made redundant but then they decided to keep me and make me a "Junior Software Engineer". I demanded a pay rise to stay (cheeky I know) and got it.

Since then, I'm still a Junior Software Engineer. But, there is nothing junior about what I do. I do exactly the same stuff as all the others (ok, both the others...).

This year, I again didn't get a payrise (company wide thing, not just me!) because we got taken over and my new boss said they hadn't been able to evaluate me as they've only just taken over (although my old boss was still there and they could have asked him). Then the letter from HR said that "after my performance review I've not been given a payrise." What performance review??!! He even mentioned in the 2-minute meeting that constituted my appraisal that I'm on less and he might be able to even things out. But nothing happened......

Everyone tells me to leave so I'm going to tell you the same thing. It's just not that easy, is it?

[Deleted User]

ts_aly2000 wrote: »

None of us are in reality going to make any difference to the world

That's very Nietzsche of you

4 years on the same pay band is terrible, especially if you're on the lower bands. At my IT firm the typical time between bands is 2 years.

Jump ship to somewhere better, you're not progressing as you should be; there's a lot of jobs out there - especially in london

brazilianwax

OP, are there other people doing your job for more money?

If they are, and they're male, you can try an Equal Pay claim through an employment tribunal.

Mind you, I wouldn't recommend it if you are dependent upon the job - it may make life more difficult in the meantime.

madfrenchgirl

Hey thx for the support guys!!! And before you get all worried: i am posting this from my own home broadband so they can;t track me (ah ah)!

it is nice to see I am not the only one.

To answer some of the questions previously posted:

TS Ally,
yes they could hire a contractor to do my job at 600 pounds a day (for example, they did that for testing and he got it all wrong, shame I did not know anything about testing).

In nearly 4 years with this company, they only started giving me relevant and expensive training in June (they sent me on a course regaridng that tool even though i already knew 80% of it) and I am currently doing an online testing course they are paying for.

As for paying for training myself: my pocket is too tight for that, i am paid under the 20k mark and living in the South (which is why i am p1ssed off).

And thx for telling me about companies being too demanding in their job prospects. That job I went for wanted highly analytical people and on top of it they wanted someone that spoke French (not that many French speaking BAs out there)! I was just very disappointed because this job sounded so good! But telling me that I do not have enough experience is a lot of dosh: they could have figured that out from my CV, no need to ask me to take a day off to go to London!

I know how it feels like to be a scapegoat (project manager being fired by the client itself due to his lack of curtesy decided to write me a crap appraisal, if I am going down then i won't be alone type of attitude). Nothing on the same level though (I still had to go through a review to prove it was a one off, even though the powers that be unofficially told me it was not my fault)! I can hardly imagine what your stress levels were like! I have way too many "jumps" when I see the "quality" of some processes, I keep on telling myself not to get involved but I can't help it!

Brazilian wax:
I could not try to get an equal pay claim: some females are doing the senior jobs too even though there are less women than males. On top of it, everyone is already a senior.

What I suspect the problem is, is that everyone wants a piece of me because I am cheap and easy on the different project and group budgets and as long as I do not c0ck up, it is all that matters to them. In my current line of work, there are no people below Senior professional, (ranks being Junior, Professional and then Senior Professional). So yes Brazilianwax, everyone if bound to do my job for more money because they already are on a senior level.

Nej:
I know the feeling, for the first year we got cut out of our bonus scheme. Every excuse in the book is good enough for them to use and they make company policies as they go along.

DMg24:
I know staying there and waiting for the next promotion round is the plan: I just dont want to "just " wait aftet them to do something for me (never gona happen). As for evidence, I have lots of senior executives that offered to fill in any type of forms in order to get me promoted (let's face it, keep me happy and i'll stay, if I go they will have to waste 2 months looking for a contractor who won;t necessarily do the job as well as I do and cost more!).

tuftyclub

I can't help - but I do feel your pain as I am in a similar situation with another outsourcing giant - who again are not IBM :=) .

If you want to stay - learn to work the system - some people are successful at forcing this. I'm not - but it's a worthwhile skill to learn.

If not - get your CV on every jobsite out there - Agents will phone - and yes 99% will be red herrings - but it's a chance.

Big companies don't value those who stay, they value the jobhoppers,

CFC

Madfrench - I think that perhaps your inexperience showed in your London interview as interviewers do not invite total no-hopers to interview. Your CV may show more experience or knowledge than you can deliver evidence of in an interview, or alternatively perhaps you need to hone your interview skills. Perhaps you would benefit from giving that area some consideration.

As for your current employers, all you can do is ask those executives who are willing to fill in some forms to get you promoted is to actually do it....?

I can see why the new department is not prepared to give you a raise as you are brand new to them. It's not very fair but it really is not unusual, I'm afraid. I presume all the grades and job titles are on pay bands and that you are at the top of your current band - if not, perhaps there is room for a raise even if not room for promotion? it may be worth putting an application for a merit raise in writing. Of course if the job is fixed rate rather than pay banded, you're snookered.

robnye

as mentioned you need to register with a few agency websites and start looking, you could even drop hints at work......

otherwise good luck to you, it is hard to get a better job anywhere without experience - but battle on

madfrenchgirl

Oh yes Tufty... We just had some voluntary redundancies a year ago and compulsory 6 months ago for them to then realise that they needed to get some contractors in because they got rid of the same people they needed on a major project. The tale of the person leaving to then come back 5 years later on double the salary they had when they first left is very very common.

CFC: I am just being honest in my CV. If I gathered data and set up a KPI measurement and analysis system then I will write it down and during the interview I will tell them honestly what it was: monitoring whether we delivered on time and in full. If they think this is not enough or not applied to a big enough environment, then so be it: I prefer not getting the job and being honest than lying about what i have done (btw, I was completely left with no supervision on this piece of work,but no one seems to realise that).

I also understand that ia m brand new to their group but I know they have investigated me by phoning most of the people I have worked with and they know what my salary is (they asked me during the interview).

I know for a fact that they will not promote me until March April and that is it. We do not have a merit promotion route as an alternative to the annual promotion round. And to be honest, i do not want to label myself as having a tantrum because I did not get what I wanted.

And yes, I have been trying agencies ever since June... I do not even know which agencies deal with my type of work, and the only interview I managed to get was this one I was referring to. And yes, a few people I trust do know I am looking somewhere else: even one of my "sponsors" told me I should try to leave the company as it was a better chance for me than sticking around.

But hey... Thx for the advice and kind words... It makes me feel better to know that I am not the only one getting "done" in the world of IT outsourcing and consultancy.

If I do manage to get out of there or get a promotion in March-April, I will bump this thread again.