G24 PCN on Alperton Lane, Greenford, London

emeralddreams

Read the newbies thread and used the template to send them a response online. Received the following back, which has got me baffled and concerned what happens if I don't pay.

I have also, contacted one of the parking area outlets, to see if they will remove the charge. As posted, I'm still waiting to hear back from them.

If can be provided with some advice on the following I'd be grateful:

Thank you for your recent correspondence.

We manage the car park on behalf of our client - and our client is not involved with the issue nor enforcement of our Notices to Keeper.

We respond as follows :

1. In relation to your suggestion that your parking charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss we confirm we have obtained legal advice in this regard and have been advised that not only can our parking charges be justified on the basis that they are in line with the Independent Parking Committee's guidelines, and that they amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss, but they are likely to amount to liquidated damages (where the issue of pre-estimate of loss is not relevant). This is because the Court’s position is that where the parties to a contract agree to fix the amount which is to be paid by way of damages in the event of a breach of contract - which is the basis of the contract detailed on our signage - a sum stipulated in this way (particularly in circumstances where there is difficulty in calculating a precise estimation) is classed as liquidated damages. Either way, our parking charges are fully enforceable and no not amount to a “penalty”. You should also be aware that in accordance with the case of Robophone Facilities v Blank the onus of proving that an amount claimed is a penalty, rather than liquidated damages, is upon you (as the party against whom the parking charge is claimed);

2. If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS). In order to appeal the IAS will need your parking charge number, your vehicle registration and the date the charge was originally issued. Appeals must be submitted to the IAS within 21 days of the date of this letter. Please visit https://www.theias.org for full details.

3. Again, you do not specify in which way you allege we not have authority to issue charges over the land where the car park is located. However, we can assure you that the parking management at the car park where you received a parking charge has been contracted to us. Again, we are able to confirm that we have been successfully audited by an independent assessor on behalf of the Independent Parking Committee.

There are sufficient signs at the entrance to and in prominent locations throughout the car park displaying the terms and conditions. Your are welcome to revisit the site to view the signage, we advise you to adhere to the terms and conditions of parking when visit the site.
Our signage complies with the Independent Parking Committee's Approved Operator Scheme.

The photographs provide evidence of the parking event that occurred which show that the driver breached the terms and conditions of parking which were clearly displayed on the signage in the car park. If you wish to receive further documentation, these will be supplied once you make a proper request under the Data Protection Act. The fact that such documentation might be used in any Court proceedings is not a legitimate way to circumvent the Data Protection Act.

The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("the Act), (Schedule 4), which governs parking on private land, provides a definition for "parking charge" and "adequate notice" of such private parking charges. The relevant sections of Schedule 4 to the Act state :

“parking charge”

(a) in the case of a relevant obligation arising under the terms of a relevant contract, means a sum in the nature of a fee or charge, and

(b) in the case of a relevant obligation arising as a result of a trespass or other tort, means a sum in the nature of damages ...

... “relevant obligation” means
(a) an obligation arising under the terms of a relevant contract; or
(b) an obligation arising, in any circumstances where there is no relevant contract, as a result of a trespass or other tort committed by parking the vehicle on the relevant land; ...

... The reference in the definition of “parking charge” to a sum in the nature of damages is to a sum of which adequate notice was given to drivers of vehicles

(when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land).
For the purposes of sub-paragraph (2) “adequate notice” means notice given by:
... (b) ... the display of one or more notices which
(i) specify the sum as the charge for unauthorised parking; and
(ii) are adequate to bring the charge to the notice of drivers who park vehicles on the relevant land".

In this instance a parking charge has been issued based on the fact that the driver of your vehicle entered into a contract with us (by the act of parking the vehicle) and our signage (which states the terms and conditions of parking) having been clearly displayed in the car park.

The Act permits parking charges to be rendered on private land, and the case of Parking Eye Limited v Somerfield Stores Limited [2012] EWCA Civ 1338 (Court of Appeal) held that (taking into account inflation) the parking company was entitled to claim a parking charge of a similar amount to that which we have charged, and therefore your reference to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 is not of any relevance in the context of this parking charge.

You should also be aware that the amount of our parking charges accords within recommendations by our Trade Associations.

The nature of our contract with our client is confidential but will be supplied during any Court proceedings.

As we have extensively investigated this Contractual Parking Charge Notice and provided you with the results of our investigation, no further investigation will be undertaken. Any further correspondence will not receive a response, the options below are still open to you.

You now have one of the following options available to you:

1. Pay the outstanding Parking Charge. Payment of your Contractual Parking Charge Notice can be made via the payment line: 0333 733 3000 or by sending a cheque or postal order to G24 Limited, PO Box 3320, Gerrards Cross, Buckinghamshire, SL9 8WT.

2. If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to The Independent Appeals Service (https://www.theIAS.org), The Independent Appeals Service provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. As you have complied with our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the The Independent Appeals Service Standard Appeals Service providing you lodge an appeal to them within 21 days of your first rejection.

3. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.

Customer Services
G24 Ltd

To Pay your Parking Charge visit http://www.payyourcharge.co.uk or call our payment line on 0845 452 7777.

Redx

if you do nothing they will invoke option #3 , to harass you for up to 6 years

we recommend you IGNORE them from now on unless you get an LBC or an MCOL in the post , in which case seek further help here

G24 have not done court in the past, but this could change

you can ignore the DCA (debt collectors) - who are powerless

Coupon-mad

concerned what happens if I don't pay.

Nothing - it's only G24:

http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/G24.html

No court, just silly letters, is their MO.

I have also, contacted one of the parking area outlets, to see if they will remove the charge. As posted, I'm still waiting to hear back from them.

Good, that is the way to stop the daft letters. No worries though, if that doesn't work. It's only G24's usual hot air!

Ian011

emeralddreams wrote: »

To Pay your Parking Charge visit http://www.payyourcharge.co.uk or call our payment line on 0845 452 7777.

The use of a premium rate 0845 number is a breach of regulation 41 of the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013 published by BIS.

Failing to declare call costs alongside the 0845 number is a breach of the Ofcom conditions binding 'non-providers'.

This shows what sort of organisation you are dealing with - and as advised above, they can be ignored.

emeralddreams

Thank you all. I can stop panicking now. thanks for the advice.

chris5317

I'm in exactly the same boat as you, with a ticket in the same location, I presume the drive through Costa / KFC.
Let me know how you get on, we are at the same stage.

galboy

I have received a charge notice from G24 very recently how are you getting on with your case?

Coupon-mad

Pretty much everyone gets these cancelled by the retail Manager. NO-ONE here pays G24.

emeralddreams

I've today received a letter from DRP (Debt Recovery Plus ltd). Demand for payment. Unpaid parking charge notice for £160.

Full payment required within 14days or failure will result in £1000 fine and possibly result in prosecution.

They've also given a test case where a client similar to g24 took a motorist to court and won the case. Www.supremecourt.uk/cases/uksc-2015-0116.html

Would welcome any advice...doesn't seem ignoring them will resolve the issue.

Thanks

Coupon-mad

Yes it will:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5035663

You've been on this forum for months, surely you know to just laugh at DRPlus and Zenith?

emeralddreams

That'll teach me for not chking about them first. Thanks for the link....set my mind to rest. Thanks