Gladstones CCJ

Guys_Dad

Your defence of "This could be anywhere" and "I have never been where the PPC says" is actually a good start.

You should ask why, if the camera was hand held, there wasn't a windscreen ticket and why no photo of the ticket on the windscreen? Obviously, there had to be a person there to take the photo (as you say it wasn't ANPR).

Have they a map of the area and the signs and have you received that in your bundle from them?

The NtK you originally received, how long after the event? Very important as if within 14 days, it was too soon for a windscreen ticket and if after 28 days, definitely why no photos of the ticket.

Read POFA part 4 , sections 8&9 for more information.

Does this qualify for "helpful advice????"

longleggedhair

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Your defence of "This could be anywhere" and "I have never been where the PPC says" is actually a good start.

You should ask why, if the camera was hand held, there wasn't a windscreen ticket and why no photo of the ticket on the windscreen? Obviously, there had to be a person there to take the photo (as you say it wasn't ANPR).

Have they a map of the area and the signs and have you received that in your bundle from them?

The NtK you originally received, how long after the event? Very important as if within 14 days, it was too soon for a windscreen ticket and if after 28 days, definitely why no photos of the ticket.

Read POFA part 4 , sections 8&9 for more information.

Does this qualify for "helpful advice????"

Thank you Guys Dad. I can't remember the precise dates of receipt of the ntk in relation to the alleged incident sadly. No map or photos have been provided to me. The only thing I received was a letter with a photo of my car taken in the dark ( the car is black) all that was visible was the outline of the car and the number plate, hence my defence that the photo could be taken anywhere.

I have been to have a look at the site and it is basically a piece of scrub land at the side of some flats that is now being developed (I'm not sure if there was signage at the time of the alleged incident-but there is none now).

I find it hard to believe a judge would accept as evidence a blank photo with my number plate on. Surely that would mean I could go and take a photo of any car in the dark and claim it was parked on my land and demand £250!

longleggedhair

I might also add that I genuinely was not at the site. When I first received a letter from them I thought (and still do!) it was a scam. It seems one of their agents has taken a photo of my car somewhere else to bump up their numbers for the day.

Redx

yes of course you can do this , these parking companies are making a business out of doing it on a daily basis 24/365 and ongoing too , be it ANPR or a hand held camera or simply alleging that the incident happened with witness statements etc

but the claimant has to convince a judge that a contract was formed and that certain laws or rules were met and that a monetary figure (or compensation) is owed

the defendant can dispute this by putting in a worthy defence that ensures that the claimant has to prove their case so the judge is "more sure than not" that there is an enforceable contract (you can see this daily on itv in Rinder)

if a defendant does NOT challenge signage and contracts and so forth, then the judge wont consider them , so not challenging signage , darkness , contracts etc means they wont be of help to you, simply by being omitted from the defence

the problem here is that you have "asked for help" AFTER submitting a poor defence and a defence that doesnt seem to challenge the contract using legal arguments (see other recent defences on here to see what I mean)

and you cannot add to this defence at a later stage , so it was imperative that you asked for help BEFORE submitting the defence , not AFTER

you have not indicated if you have agreed to mediation, or agreed to a hearing "on papers" , or if you have asked for it to be transferred to your local court for a personal hearing ?

how can anyone help you when you dont even tell us the basics of your defence situation ?

to be frank, you are asking for help to get on a ship that has already sailed and your hand baggage is on that ship whereas all your main luggage is still at home, not packed , and you are stuck in limbo with access to neither and reliant on a captain steering the boat and if it comes back for your luggage or carries on without you and you have forfeited your ticket in the process

i SUSPECT YOU WILL GET BURNED ON THIS ONE BECAUSE YOUR HAND IS ALREADY IN THE FIRE SO ASKING IF IT WAS A GOOD IDEA TO PUT IT IN THERE IS TOO LATE ONCE ITS BEEN IN FOR 10 MINUTES

the time to ask for help is when people can still help

but the fact remains that anyone can take anybody to the small claims court for almost anything, even for charging you to read this paragraph

enforcing it into an actual monetary gain is a different ball game however

ps:- here is an example of a current court case where the help is being given in drafting a suitable defence

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5607535

now ask yourself, is your defence similar ? or not ? (I suspect - NOT)

The_Deep

It is not what a judge thinks, it is how persuasive the evidence the other side puts up is. In other words, who hires the best lawyer. We are not deliberately being unhelpful, but the law is what it is, not what you would hope it would be.


If you want to beat this you will have to master a great deal of detail, read some law, understand several legal concepts, and put aside personal opinions. It is not painting by numbers, but it is not differential calculus either. You have a mountain to climb, but we will provide the maps.

longleggedhair

Redx wrote: »

yes of course you can do this , these parking companies are making a business out of doing it on a daily basis 24/365 and ongoing too , be it ANPR or a hand held camera or simply alleging that the incident happened with witness statements etc

but the claimant has to convince a judge that a contract was formed and that certain laws or rules were met and that a monetary figure (or compensation) is owed

the defendant can dispute this by putting in a worthy defence that ensures that the claimant has to prove their case so the judge is "more sure than not" that there is an enforceable contract (you can see this daily on itv in Rinder)

the problem here is that you have "asked for help" AFTER submitting a poor defence and a defence that doesnt seem to challenge the contract using legal arguments (see other recent defences on here to see what I mean)

and you cannot add to this defence at a later stage , so it was imperative that you asked for help BEFORE submitting the defence , not AFTER

you have not indicated if you have agreed to mediation, or agreed to a hearing "on papers" , or if you have asked for it to be transferred to your local court for a personal hearing ?

how can anyone help you when you dont even tell us the basics of your defence situation ?

to be frank, you are asking for help to get on a ship that has already sailed and your hand baggage is on that ship whereas all your main luggage is still at home, not packed , and you are stuck in limbo with access to neither and reliant on a captain steering the boat and if it comes back for your luggage or carries on without you and you have forfeited your ticket in the process

i SUSPECT YOU WILL GET BURNED ON THIS ONE BECAUSE YOUR HAND IS ALREADY IN THE FIRE SO ASKING IF IT WAS A GOOD IDEA TO PUT IT IN THERE IS TOO LATE ONCE ITS BEEN IN FOR 10 MINUTES

the time to ask for help is when people can still help

but the fact remains that anyone can take anybody to the small claims court for almost anything, even for charging you to read this paragraph

enforcing it into an actual monetary gain is a different ball game however

Thank you. I accept what you are saying and with the benefit of hindsight I would have come here but I only came to this thread after googling Gladstones afterwards:(

I have requested that the matter be transferred to a local court.

Redx

ok , in that case if your defence is "wasnt there your honour and neither was my vehicle", then in theory you need to prove the vehicle was elsewhere at the time stated, or that YOU were elsewhere (on holiday in the bahamas and the keys were locked in the safety deposit box at your local bank) and that as keeper you are not "accountable" because they have failed to follow POFA2012

THE PPC IS IN THE PARKING BUSINESS WITH CAR PARKS AND EMPLOYING A CEO TO PATROL IT

so they may have permission for signs and cameras , a CEO with a handheld camera who works for them taking pictures of VRM plates on vehicles and who will prepare a witness statement stating that photo is of that vehicle on that car park at the time and date stated, a DVLA request showing the KEEPER of that VRM is you , they may indicate that they have followed POFA2012 to the letter and they have the correct person in court and they should be awarded judgment

your defence cannot be "I wasnt there you honour" , not without proof , or it could well be that yet the judge may decide on the balance of probability that the claimant has a valid claim and that they should be awarded the judgment due to this, or due to your lack of evidence to the contrary, or the fact that in your defence you have not disputed locus standii , not disputed signage , not disputed POFA2012 etc etc

read the NEWBIES thread post #2 , look at the defence links in there, now compare them with yours and ask yourself what is missing from yours that is vital to your case

also bear in mind you cannot introduce new legal arguments now, so you will have to expand on what you put in your defence , provide proof and evidence to back up your case a few weeks before the court case date , witness statements, evidence of the vehicle being elsewhere at the time , etc etc

also ask yourself why there is so much information in that post #2 , why we go to great lengths to stop people putting in a c*** defence right at the start , etc

ps:- also bear in mind the PPC is not saying that YOU were on that piece of private land, they are saying that your vehicle was parked on that piece of private land

Guys_Dad

The other side need to provide PROOF.

Have they supplied photos of the signage? Have you got photos of the signage? If not, get them and see where they fail to meet POFA.

At court, if they turn up, DO NOT ENGAGE WITH THEIR LAWYER or ACCEPT ANY PAPERS ON THE DAY. They will attempt to sneak some in , I am sure.

You may also want to challenge the right of audience of their brief. Please read up the PARKING PRANKSTERs blog on his web site re how they try it on with unqualified barristers. See, read and learn what to challenge.

But above all, demand they have a plan of the site, proper signs and why they have no picture of the windscreen with a ticket on it.

Half_way

If you were not at that location, then where were you? do you have a smart phone? if so then its possible it may have tracked your location, which you can then review on a map

longleggedhair

Thanks all. I was out with friends at the time, parked in a dark quiet street a couple of miles away from where they have alleged, but how do I prove it?!

I'll wait to hear further, as I said defence submitted a few weeks ago so when I hear more I'm sure I'll be back picking your brains. Thanks all.