Budget 2017: Self-employed face hike in class 4 national insurance payments

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  • boo_starboo_star Forumite
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    mattcanary wrote: »
    Hear hear! Big Deal!

    Taxes need to be raised across the board anyway to help fund the NHS, local authorities, social care, etc. All of which are in a right mess.

    Self Employed people didn't accrue pension years nor were their payments counted towards contribution-based JSA. I'm all for paying my fair share but if we continue to be treated as second-class citizens when it comes to pensions and benefits, it sounds like we're being screwed over.
  • martinsurreymartinsurrey Forumite
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    boo_star wrote: »
    Self Employed people didn't accrue pension years nor were their payments counted towards contribution-based JSA. I'm all for paying my fair share but if we continue to be treated as second-class citizens when it comes to pensions and benefits, it sounds like we're being screwed over.

    How about they increase class 4 to 25.8% up to £43k a year and 15.8% after that and SE get stat sick pay, stat mat, and the other bits and pieces?

    sound fair?
  • MarkthesharkMarktheshark Forumite
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    A major fist in the guts for those forced to work in self employment, like most of the building trade.
    They are already struggling to live and the Tories have just dealt them a fist straight to the gut.

    This will cost them a good chunk of votes.
    I do Contracts, all day every day.
  • agrinnallagrinnall
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    It was reported as 60p a week yesterday but now that's been corrected to 60p a day, although I believe in the first year that is pretty much offset by abolition of Class 2 NICs.

    What I don't understand is why so many SE people commenting online and on the radio can't seem to grasp that paying NICs has nothing to do with paid holidays - loads of them are saying if they have to pay higher NICs then they should get paid holidays, seemingly without realising that it's employers who pay for holidays, not the government, and that all the government does is legislate for how much paid leave employees are entitled to.
  • edited 9 March 2017 at 5:22PM
    caveworkcavework Forumite
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    edited 9 March 2017 at 5:22PM
    The harder you work , the more you are penalised ...The people who take the financial risk of becoming self employed seem to be the next cash cow for the Government...
    So perhaps they should now expect more cash in hand jobs will happen, where no taxes ..VAT or NI are being paid.
    Expect more zero hours contracts ..expect lower employment by small businesses.
    Small business owners are constantly under pressure by larger contractors to reduce their costs, these reductions in profitability have to be passed on to the people employed via wages. There is always huge press coverage about employees complaints about low wages , working conditions ...etc. There is far less coverage about the true increase in cost for each employee that small businesses are expected to find while still being able to operate at a profit. Stop blaming the self employed who have taken the risk, time and effort into creating employment you have, for your poor wage packet. Look at the bigger picture and stop imagining your employer is raking in shed loads of money while sunning themselves on a beach somewhere having their lifestyle subsidised by your blood , sweat and tears
  • Employed people with contributory pensions took a bigger hit last year when contracting out ended and that didn't get any real coverage in the media. That was an extra 1.4% off your top line between 8K and 43K so those at the top end would have contributed an extra £500 this tax year so it's not just the self employed that are being targeted. This then translates into just over £4.40 a week pension per year extra at current rates. Not such a good deal is it ?
  • martinsurreymartinsurrey Forumite
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    cavework wrote: »
    The harder you work , the more you are penalised ...The people who take the financial risk of becoming self employed seem to be the next cash cow for the Government...
    So perhaps they should now expect more cash in hand jobs will happen, where no taxes ..VAT or NI are being paid.
    Expect more zero hours contracts ..expect lower employment by small businesses.
    Small business owners are constantly under pressure by larger contractors to reduce their costs, these reductions in profitability have to be passed on to the people employed via wages. There is always huge press coverage about employees complaints about low wages , working conditions ...etc. There is far less coverage about the true increase in cost for each employee that small businesses are expected to find while still being able to operate at a profit. Stop blaming the self employed who have taken the risk, time and effort into creating employment you have, for your poor wage packet. Look at the bigger picture and stop imagining your employer is raking in shed loads of money while sunning themselves on a beach somewhere having their lifestyle subsidised by your blood , sweat and tears

    a business that made £50k profit before this change will make about £49.7k after this change (combined with class 2 change).

    a business that made £15k profit before this change will make £15.1k profit after this change (combined with class 2, more class 4 of £70, less class 2 of £150), so small change to a higher earner, and a bonus to a low earner...
  • DoshwasterDoshwaster Forumite
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    agrinnall wrote: »
    It was reported as 60p a week yesterday but now that's been corrected to 60p a day, although I believe in the first year that is pretty much offset by abolition of Class 2 NICs.

    What I don't understand is why so many SE people commenting online and on the radio can't seem to grasp that paying NICs has nothing to do with paid holidays - loads of them are saying if they have to pay higher NICs then they should get paid holidays, seemingly without realising that it's employers who pay for holidays, not the government, and that all the government does is legislate for how much paid leave employees are entitled to.

    Quite right - and one of the advantages of being self-employed is that you can take as many holidays as you want. You need to to budget for it in your business planning. I know some self-employed people who take 3 months at a time.
  • mattcanarymattcanary Forumite
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    cavework wrote: »
    The harder you work , the more you are penalised ...The people who take the financial risk of becoming self employed seem to be the next cash cow for the Government...
    So perhaps they should now expect more cash in hand jobs will happen, where no taxes ..VAT or NI are being paid.
    Expect more zero hours contracts ..expect lower employment by small businesses.
    Small business owners are constantly under pressure by larger contractors to reduce their costs, these reductions in profitability have to be passed on to the people employed via wages. There is always huge press coverage about employees complaints about low wages , working conditions ...etc. There is far less coverage about the true increase in cost for each employee that small businesses are expected to find while still being able to operate at a profit. Stop blaming the self employed who have taken the risk, time and effort into creating employment you have, for your poor wage packet. Look at the bigger picture and stop imagining your employer is raking in shed loads of money while sunning themselves on a beach somewhere having their lifestyle subsidised by your blood , sweat and tears


    Why should self-employed people far less in NI contributions than employed people??

    The self-employed don;t get holiday pay, etc. However, they also don;t have to bow down and serve an employer, which is a huge positive.

    Unless they are in sham self-employment. Anything that is done to discourage employers from offering this, can only be a good thing.
  • POPPYOSCARPOPPYOSCAR Forumite
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    As a self-employed person I cannot believe the outcry.

    Yes being self-employed is risky, regular income not guaranteed etc. but the generous tax advantages outweigh this IMO.

    I know many SE who openly boast about how little tax they pay and many live very well.
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