Women fighting state pension changes to protest outside Parliament on Budget Day

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  • dunstonhdunstonh Forumite
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    My interpretation for what it is worth is that MSE Faye wasn't endorsing WASPI but was simply informing those that read the Pensions forum of WASPIs aims and about the event.

    MSE supports WASPI. It says it in most articles MSE make about WASPI. Including this one.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
  • PollycatPollycat Forumite
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    dunstonh wrote: »
    MSE supports WASPI. It says it in most articles MSE make about WASPI. Including this one.
    Martin himself hopes to attend:
    MoneySavingExpert.com founder Martin Lewis and former pensions minister Ros Altmann have said they hope to attend.
  • edited 8 March 2017 at 11:42AM
    SilvertabbySilvertabby Forumite
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    edited 8 March 2017 at 11:42AM
    I'm ashamed to be in the group of women that WASPI say they are representing. Posted by Pollycat
    Me too. I knew in the mid 1990s that I wouldn't get my State pension at 60 (last year). That's over 30 years notice - well over a quarter of a century! How much more notice did they need?
  • uk1uk1 Forumite
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    But what difference does that make? Or what Martin thinks?

    I'm an adult and presume that most adults can make up their own mind. But they can only make up their own mind if both sides of an argument is allowed the freedom to express themselves without harrassment and personal attacks.

    Some years ago I was mildly awre that some females felt that they had been dealt a bad deal because of the speed of change of their retirement dates and on the basis of their feelings and perhaps because I'm an old-fashioned bloke and they were females, I felt sympathy. It was only when both sides argued their case on an MSE thread in some detail that I decided that my own view was that whilst I still felt a degree of sympathy for how they felt and it was largely because they were older females, their underlying case and rationale wasn't sufficiently compelling and seemed flawed for them to win my support whatever little value that was. I didn't like being proved wrong but my first impression was wrong.

    What I did feel however was extremely uncomfortable about the way that other objectors to WASPIs aims resorted to personal attacks about WASPI proponents. They seem to be offended by WASPI and wish to take every opportunity to stifle their opportunities to express their point of view, whereas I felt that the more I understood their case and the contra arguments the more I disagreed with their case. I still however felt sorry for them feeling the way they did, even if I disagreed with their case. That is what I object to.

    Of the very few things I feel a degree of passion about is when one side of an argument uses "being offended" by an argument they seek to have it stifled. That seems to me to be what generallly happens on these threads. Doing so loses the argument. Allowing their arguments to flow and attacking the argument with well thought out responses rather than simply attacking the poster is what wins an argument. It is because "offensive" arguments are too prematurely stifled through fear of offence that gives oxygen to extremism or misinformation or ill-founded support for bad causes of all sorts including I guess even the relatively innocuous aims of WASPI.

    My plea is only that people remember that it is only when as many people as possible get to hear clearly from the horses mouth how inherrently daft an idea is can they then decide that for themsleves.
  • dunstonhdunstonh Forumite
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    ome years ago I was mildly awre that some females felt that they had been dealt a bad deal because of the speed of change of their retirement dates and on the basis of their feelings and perhaps because I'm an old-fashioned bloke and they were females, I felt sympathy.

    absolutely. The 2011 changes were too heavily accelerated and you would have been hard pushed to find anyone who was not sympathetic to a selection of women in that scenario. However, the Govt went on to reduce the impact so no-one was having their age increased by more than 18 months. Plus, WASPI did not campaign or request anything related to the women who were suffering under the 2011 changes. They want age 60 to be the women's state pension age. Not all women though. So, its not just male discrimination they are after. It is women born after a certain date too.

    It is a NIMBY style campaign.
    What I did feel however was extremely uncomfortable about the way that other objectors to WASPIs aims resorted to personal attacks about WASPI proponents.

    Have you seen how the WASPI women treat people who present the counter argument? They make the SNP cybernats look tame.

    The bit that is disappointing here is that certain high profile individuals or groups or commercial interests seem to be jumping on a bandwagon not for the benefit of the individuals but for the benefit of their own image or commercial interests. They cannot be doing it because they genuinely understand what WASPI are after or that they feel sympathy with certain wealthy women campaigning for discrimination.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
  • dunstonh wrote: »


    Have you seen how the WASPI women treat people who present the counter argument? They make the SNP cybernats look tame.

    Here's just one example.
    A Government minister claims she has been “bullied, insulted and vilified” by a women’spensions campaign group.
    The claim was made by Pensions Minister and Tory peer Ros Altmann, who said the “personal” attacks had been “hurtful, hateful” and “very, very distressing”.
    Baroness Altmann told the Telegraph that she has faced a sustained hate campaign from the Women Against State Pension Inequality (WASPI) campaign since she became a minister in the Department of Work and Pensions last year.

    She said she was the victim of “incessant tweets and emails, trolling, insults and many swear words” after the campaign gave out her email address to thousands of their angry supporters.
    “These women have emailed me horrid and vile messages, such as hoping I get struck down with cancer, that I’m a traitor, a turncoat and that I’ve sold my soul to the devil.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/12144589/Minister-bullied-and-insulted-by-womens-group-over-pension-age.html
  • uk1uk1 Forumite
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    I agree.

    Today we even had in PMQs Angus Robertson (SNP) with his cack-handed version of virtue signalling. However I suspect that if anyone was swayed by Angus Robertson's virtue signalling on balance it was more on the anti-side of neutral than swayed in favour of it on the basis that you are known more by the company you keep. All WASPI now need is Tony Blair on their side and they'll have the full set. But now I'm in danger of doing exactly what I'm complaining about. :D

    I haven't been following the WASPI campaign elsewhere, only what is posted in this forum. That's why I'd like to see them allowed the space without harrassment to argue with those that respectfully post well-informed and emotive-free contra-opinions. That is healthy and is educating.
  • uk1uk1 Forumite
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    Well Ros has had the opportunity because of her high-profile to say so. And she shouldn't feel that way and they are wrong if they have upset her. The more they do that sort of thing, and the wider the treatment is exposed, the more they harm their cause. The should have the right to offend and insult and do their causeharm and Ros should have the right to say what she feels and receive sympathy and support.

    All of that is a side show to their argument.
  • westvwestv Forumite
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    I'm just very confused as to what WASPI actually want.
  • PollycatPollycat Forumite
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    westv wrote: »
    I'm just very confused as to what WASPI actually want.
    You're not the only one.

    What they put in their petition (that I signed) bore no resemblance to their 'ask' on Facebook.

    And this statement from MSE:
    The Women Against State Pension Inequality (WASPI) campaign group was formed to demand transitional arrangements including a 'bridging pension' for those caught out by the changes.
    is inaccurate.

    The subject of a 'bridging pension' was only brought up after they got nowhere with their original campaign which was 'I want my pension at age 60'.
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