Non-POFA parking notices

rdjevans17

Hi. I have been issues a parking notice that falls outside of the POFA 2012 guidelines. I am the registered keeper of the vehicle, but was not the driver of the vehicle when the parking contravention happened and I do not remember who was driving. There was no on screen ticket and the notice to keeper was sent well after the 14 days limit the POFA 2012 guidelines state it should be sent in. I've pointed this out and was met with this response...

"I’m afraid that isn’t correct.

For Non-POFA cases where Registered Keeper refuses/is unable to name the driver:

“The notice sent to you was what we refer to as a Non-POFA notice. These are notices that do not meet the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and therefore, there is no statutory obligation for you to name the driver. However, it is a misconception that non-POFA notices cannot be used to hold you liable for the outstanding charge. It is our position that there is a rebuttable presumption that you, as registered keeper of the vehicle, were the driver at the time of the parking event and therefore are liable for the charge as incurred. If you can provide evidence to the contrary then we would urge you to do so at this early opportunity.”

We hope that this information clarifies your position.

Please advise whether you wish to appeal the charges."

...I've had a read through the thread at the top but it makes no mention of a company 'presuming' I was the driver and chasing me for the charge. I'm wondering if anyone has experience with this and if they are actually telling the truth, or if they are trying to scare me into making payment.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Bob

Redx

they do try to "presume" that the keeper and driver are one and the same , but this does not hold up in law

so it would be one of your defence points in any appeal or any court case

see threads like the lamilad thread and parking pranksters blogs

dont fall for it, and dont name the driver or infer who was driving (if you knew)

they cannot hold the keeper liable under POFA2012 if they have failed it

so yes , its scare tactics only , and just because they say its true, it does not make it true

they are being economical with the truth , or havent a clue

appeal with the template and follow the advice, depending who it is

rdjevans17

Thanks RedX

Problem is they are an IPC member so don't think any appeal will be worth the time and effort.

in your eyes, with such an obvious breach of POFA 2012, do you think they will bother taking it to court or just bombard with debt collector letters?

Redx

no idea without you naming the company involved

an IAS appeal is a waste of time

yes somebody is going to be issuing debt letters and they wont let POFA2012 put them off

and yes GLADSTONES may persuade them to issue a court case within 6 years, so they make extra cash either way and they wont care about POFA2012 either

so assume the worst and plan accordingly

check the BMPA zendesk to see how many court cases your PPC has issued to date

rdjevans17

The PPC in question is District Enforcement Ltd.

Had a look but can't seem to see any stats about court cases issued?

Lamilad

rdjevans17 wrote: »

The PPC in question is District Enforcement Ltd.

Had a look but can't seem to see any stats about court cases issued?

DE ltd do take people to court. Difficult to advise further without knowing more about the background - car park, signage etc.

BMPA advise getting the landowner involved.
https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203542872-District-Enforcement-Ltd

yotmon

rdjevans17 wrote: »

Hi.


“The notice sent to you was what we refer to as a Non-POFA notice. These are notices that do not meet the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and therefore, there is no statutory obligation for you to name the driver.

We hope that this information clarifies your position.

So, you have it in black and white that they are admitting their NTK does not conform to PoFa, so they cannot hold the keeper responsible for their charges. 1-0 to you so far.

If they do pursue you, then it can only be as driver. Quite a few cases recently listed on the Pranksters blog showing how this has been woefully painful for the ppc's court rep ! Let's just hope that other judges follow suite.

Coupon-mad

rdjevans17 wrote: »

Hi. I have been issues a parking notice that falls outside of the POFA 2012 guidelines. I am the registered keeper of the vehicle, but was not the driver of the vehicle when the parking contravention happened and I do not remember who was driving. There was no on screen ticket and the notice to keeper was sent well after the 14 days limit the POFA 2012 guidelines state it should be sent in. I've pointed this out and was met with this response...

"I’m afraid that isn’t correct.

For Non-POFA cases where Registered Keeper refuses/is unable to name the driver:

“The notice sent to you was what we refer to as a Non-POFA notice. These are notices that do not meet the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and therefore, there is no statutory obligation for you to name the driver. However, it is a misconception that non-POFA notices cannot be used to hold you liable for the outstanding charge. It is our position that there is a rebuttable presumption that you, as registered keeper of the vehicle, were the driver at the time of the parking event and therefore are liable for the charge as incurred. If you can provide evidence to the contrary then we would urge you to do so at this early opportunity.”

We hope that this information clarifies your position.

Please advise whether you wish to appeal the charges."

...I've had a read through the thread at the top but it makes no mention of a company 'presuming' I was the driver and chasing me for the charge. I'm wondering if anyone has experience with this and if they are actually telling the truth, or if they are trying to scare me into making payment.

Thanks in advance for your help.

It's DE, so just say:

'I was not the driver so you would fall into error and be wasting you time assuming I was. See you in court, Dyl'.

Nasty greedy firm, by all accounts from victims, especially the poor students at Staffs Uni. Ex-Police guy thinks he knows it all.

They CANNOT assume the keeper was the driver with no evidence. He knows that; he hopes you do not. How do such people sleep at night?

rdjevans17

Thanks all.

I've emailed off stating that and will let you know their response once received.

rdjevans17

Reply received is as follows:

Hello Bob,

Our position remains the same, unless you advise the driver for each instance, the PCNs will be progressed as normal.

The option to appeal the charges remains; please provide details of your appeal together with any information you are required to provide, should you wish to transfer liability.

Regards

DE Appeals

Coupon-mad

I would reply:

Dear Dyl,

And my position remains the same and I have told you I was not the driver. There is no obligation upon me to divulge the driver, you are not the Police...