Dishwasher newbie

Elliesmum

Snap your dishwasher tablet in half. It's a tip I picked up off the OS thread and it really works! I have never had a bad wash from 1/2 a tablet and I buy the cheapest ones I can get hold off. So your 7p a wash is now half the price!

EM xx

Peartree

Go for Lidl/Aldi/Netto or supermarket own brand when they are on offer - they are just as good. With branded products, dishwasher or otherwise, you're paying for their adviertising.

Also fabulous is washing soda - on its own or to give the tablets a bit of a boost. And don't even think about the 'dishwasher cleaner'. Run a cycle with a bit of white vinegar and/or washing soda.

kwatt

It's really quite worrying that people don't know about this stuff in a lot of ways for me.

If you half the dose, it may be fine, but it depends on the water hardness and load size as well as soiling level. What suits one person probably won't suit another as this isn't an exact science.

Vinegar and washing soda, in a dishwasher? Why on Earth would I assume that a weak acid then weakened massively in a solution would do, well anything really? Sorry, that one's an old wives tale and it doesn't work on washers or dishwashers. But, if you're happy with that then fine, who am I to argue.

What I can tell others is that the science doesn't back up the claim.

As for paying for advertising, yes you are. But then with the budget brands you get a stripped out detergent sold at a high price, bigger profit for the store and once you understand how the market works that becomes abundantly apparent.

I'm not trying to start a ruck or anything but, daily, I work in this field with manufacturers of detergents and appliances and I've no agenda as sales of either won't affect me, so I don't care what you do. WEll that's not entirely true, if you want to trash your appliance then great as all we repairers get work out that, so be my guest. And, if we don't get a repair, there's a fair chance we'll get the sale of a new one.

What I can see is people getting bad advice and possibly harming their machines leading to early demise or additional maintenance costs and, quite probably, poor results from the machines.

We see it almost daily in service, people don't get the results they want and therefore the machine must be faulty. Can't be anything they're doing can it?

But, to me, stuff like this is like telling me that I can water down the petrol in my car with ethanol or something and get an extra 10 miles per litre of fuel. We all know it's rubbish or that the car will run like a dog, possibly blow up and probably invalidate any warranty on it and yet many accept that they can do what is tantamount to the same thing with an appliance and simply expect it to work.

Is it just me or does that seem somewhat silly?

K.

silvercar

Couple of questions kwatt if i may,

which is better, dishwasher tablet that contains rinse-aid and salt or separate tablet, rinse-aid and salt?

which is better loose powder or tablet?

would you give a specific recommendation for hard water, dishwasher goes on everyday, always threw in saucepans and tea/ coffee stained mugs?

Poppycat

I just get the cheap Morrison's ones that are all in one and they fine for us, dont forget to clean the filters once a week. I also get one of those plastic lemons things at Morrison's to leave in dishwasher to make it smell nice

northy

Maybe It's me but I tried one of those lemon fresheners and my family complained they could taste it on cups and glasses so I just give it a rinse thru with bi carb now and again to keep it smelling fresh.

kwatt

Hi Silvercar,

Certainly, I don't object to questions at all.

Powder is always better IMO as you get all the technology, much the same with laundry detergent (we refer to them as "wash" and "dish"), with none of the drawbacks or compromises of a tablet. That said, there are tablets around that are in effect, powder in a bag and they work on test just as well as powder.

If you ask virtually anyone independent in the industry, for dish, they will almost universally tell you, powder, rinse aid, salt. It's not as easy, but it's far more effective and controllable.

As with wash one of the key factors is how well and quickly the detergent dissolves, the faster the better. However, with liquids, although they dissolve quicker to solution, they cannot contain all the technology and miss massively as none can contain any bleach and are therefore a massive compromise.

On dish this will mean that tea staining (tannin primarily) is not removed correctly as well as many other stains of a similar nature.

In hard water, just as with wash, you need to adjust the dose to remove the calcium from the water which is done in the detergent by a component referred to as "builders". These attach themselves to the calcium particles and suspend them in the solution allowing the rest of the components (there are knocking on for 200 in most detergents) to do what they were intended to do, attack staining and dirt. If you underdose there isn't enough builders to compensate for the calcium level and the other components attack the calcium instead of the stains or dirt that they were supposed to in the first place.

So, for example, if you are in an extremely hard water area the two tablets may be required, even with salt and a softener, to get good results.

My advice, if this is the case, is to ensure that you have salt in the softener, use one tablet and check the results. If you have any staining or a sort of "milky" coating on the glasses in particular, you may have to increase the softener setting and/or the detergent dose.

The big problem with this, as it is on wash, is that all too often it takes several washes to see the effects and they can be very subtle at times. It's an incremental thing, often taking quite a while to manifest itself meaning that items get tossed as being "done" before they should or the machine being blamed for a performance degradation when that's not actually what's happening. As items are cycled, be it laundry or dishes, many months can go by before you notice it. This actually costs people more in the longer term not using the machines and detergents correctly by way of wasted dishes, laundry and machines for the sake of a few pence on detergent up front.

Hard pressed tabs are a nightmare as they don't dissolve the same in every machine and, if you read the boxes very carefully, you'll see that most recommend high temperature, long cycles. But you have to ask, how does the tablet know when the machine needs rinse aid? And, how does the salt action last through to the final rinses? The answer, on both counts, is that they don't. Then factor in the different programs, fill levels, water hardness, soiling levels and a plethora of other factors and it's easy enough with a modicum of common sense to see that these things are flawed.

But in essence, a powder based detergent with dish every time with rinse aid and salt if required for the water hardness.

HTH

K.

rockjim69

Ooh, a dishwasher expert! Hope you dont mind me jumping in on the question asking too Kwatt?

One thing Ive noticed on crockery washed in dishwashers is that it can become quite "squeeky". Do you have any idea what causes the "squeekiness" and how to avoid it?

adandem

Kwatt, I always use liquid detergent in my washing machine, are you saying it's no good then? Or are you just referring to dishwashers

SonOfPearl

Wow, did I open a can of worms or what?

Thanks to all who answered, especially kwatt for his insider knowledge.

If kwatt is still lurking here, I have a few more questions, if that's ok...

1. Is there any basis for the claims made by 4-in-1 or even 5-in-1 dishwasher tablets? I know 3-in-1 means detergent, rinse aid and salt. What about the claimed 4th and 5th actions - preventing cloudy glasses and extra cleaning power? Science or baloney?
2. If I use separate detergent, rinse aid and salt as suggested, will own-brand rinse aid and salt be as good as premium brands?
3. If I want to take care of my dishwasher, what regular cleaning/maintenance should I be doing? Should I use a dishwasher cleaner product once a month as suggested on my Finish 5-in-1 tablet pack?

Thanks again for the many helpful comments so far. Why is life never simple?