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Selling a let property
Comments
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Can I write to the tenant? I note that you all say to call, but I don't have his telephone number. Obviously, I know his address.0
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No it has not changed, but just because the tenancy agreement says the tenant must do X, does not mean the tenant will do X.new2allthis wrote: »I hadn't considered that possibility.
When I rented and the LL was selling up, my housemate and I had to allow visits. It was part of the tenancy agreement we signed. Has that changed?
And there's only limited things the LL can then do about it.
Give notice. End the tenancy. Do up the flat. Market. Sell.0 -
well if you don't know his number (and can't find it - directory enquiries? Your agent?) then you can't call, can you?new2allthis wrote: »Can I write to the tenant? I note that you all say to call, but I don't have his telephone number. Obviously, I know his address.
Looking at your reasons for selling, it seems your issues are with the agent, not the tenants, or the property.
Read:
* Letting agents: how should a landlord select or sack?
But it is partly your fault in that you are letting the agent, who works for you, call the shots!
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well if you don't know his number (and can't find it - directory enquiries? Your agent?) then you can't call, can you?
Looking at your reasons for selling, it seems your issues are with the agent, not the tenants, or the property.
Read:
* Letting agents: how should a landlord select or sack?
But it is partly your fault in that you are letting the agent, who works for you, call the shots!
I have no issues with the tenant. The flat is a headache with all the leaks and I had a horrible time living there, so lots of not-so-good memories. The agent is a friend of a friend (and I used to work for him) so it's very difficult. I don't have the mental energy to fight to get this agent to do their job as I would like or to find another one as I don't trust any of the ones I dealt with when I was a buyer. I went with this agent because I knew they were good people - they want to do a good job for their clients, we just disagree on how that works, that is all. It's very easy to cast blame and criticism around. I am dealing with it - by selling up!
In answer to the debate about giving notice, then selling, ideally I would like the tenant to stay as long as possible as I can't afford to cover both mortgages (another reason to sell) and who knows how long the flat could be on the market. I realise that may seem selfish but right now, I'm between a rock and a hard place. I've just changed jobs, and now have less income than before but it was worth it to get out of the toxic place I was in. If I give notice, I may have to cover two mortgages. If I don't sell, I may buckle under all the pressures I have on my plate right now. So, what do I do for the best?
I don't understand this letting stuff - it has never made sense to me, hence why I got an agent. That has relieved some of the stress, but added others. I've never found it easy to find information out - there doesn't seem to be one go-to place - hence, my question here today. And yes, perhaps I am being very naive, but not everyone is a born entrepreneur or business person or finds it a comfortable fit. I have hated nigh-on every minute of it and want to get out but, even that, is proving to be far from easy or clear what I have to do. So, I am grateful for constructive advice (thank you to everyone in that regard), but can do without the odd person throwing in dismissive comments and sarcasm.0 -
Hmm... and I thought I'd been remarkably restrained!
It is common to hear of LL's trying to sell with tenants in situ, for exactly the reasons you give: wanting rent to continue up to the last minute.
Sometimes this works, but often not.
* the tenant may not cooperate over viewings. If they do initially, they may get fed up after 6 or 7 and stop allowing access
* the property may look a mess - there's no reson why a tenant should keep it spick and span just so the LL can sell and kick the tenant out. That makes selling harder
* as previously explained, many buyers are immediately put off by tenants, knowing there is uncertainty over eviction timescales (and by the risk of the tenants leaving the property in poor condition)
* once a buyer is found, the LL serves a S21 Notice (2 months). That may be longer than a buyer wants to wait.
* the tenant may not leave after 2 months, so it is a huge risk to even Exchange Contracts
* if the tenant does not leave, it can take further weeks/months to evict, during which Exchange still cannot take place. many buyers may withdraw in frustration, leaving you back at stage 1 again.
For all these reasons, and more, the previous advice applies.0 -
Hmm... and I thought I'd been remarkably restrained!
Not at all how it felt on the receiving end, I can assure you.* the tenant may not cooperate over viewings. If they do initially, they may get fed up after 6 or 7 and stop allowing access
* the property may look a mess - there's no reson why a tenant should keep it spick and span just so the LL can sell and kick the tenant out. That makes selling harder
Ok, both make sense. I must admit, it was a bore and chore when I had to do it.* once a buyer is found, the LL serves a S21 Notice (2 months). That may be longer than a buyer wants to wait.
It takes at least 8 weeks to get from an offer being accepted to completion, so I don't understand this point.* the tenant may not leave after 2 months, so it is a huge risk to even Exchange Contracts
* if the tenant does not leave, it can take further weeks/months to evict, during which Exchange still cannot take place. many buyers may withdraw in frustration, leaving you back at stage 1 again
Ok, It hadn't occurred to me that the tenant might squat. Hence, my request for advice in the first place - as I knew it was likely there was much I didn't know or hadn't considered.For all these reasons, and more, the previous advice applies.
It would be lovely to live in an ideal world, but I don't. I can't afford to cover two mortgages, council tax (no discounts for second homes any more where I live), utilities (even if it's standing charges only) etc - it's as simple as that. At best, I might be able to scrape enough together to cover both for a couple of months but what if the flat doesn't sell? That said, I would prefer the flat to sell quickly and for reasons, including come of the ones you point out above, that may not be likely if the flat is occupied. As I say, between a rock and a hard place.0 -
I am sorry OP but I too thought GM was restrained. And I am not being sarcastic when I say that you may find not knowing how to remove your tenant before even informing them of what you want to do could cause you to make mistakes. Please try and read the advice on here as information, not a chance to 'get at you'. The advice, if you take it, could save you from some bad situations.
Remember you are posting on an open forum, and anyone can post. You may get some unhelpful posts or even incorrect information. Ignore the bad and decide what to do about the good.
Or get a solicitor and let them deal with it on your behest. Will cost though.
I have to say that renting out a 'horrible' flat surely, was never going to be anything but 'horrible'????? perhaps the time to sell it was when you moved out.
I hope you sell it quickly, but also agree the best way to sell it for everyone (reduced stress as it will be stressful dealing with tenants who are losing their home and perhaps may feel their home is being invaded for viewings) is to give them notice, deal with that, before putting it up for sale. Otherwise you may only get viewings from BTL LL's who will tend to offer a lower price.
Please note that this advice is ONLY intended to be helpful.0 -
Indeed. The risk with one approach is that it simply does not sell, or takes an exeedingly long time, or only sells at a heavily discounted price.new2allthis wrote: »Not at all how it felt on the receiving end, I can assure you.
apologies then.
Ok, both make sense. I must admit, it was a bore and chore when I had to do it.
It takes at least 8 weeks to get from an offer being accepted to completion, so I don't understand this point.
Exchange, not Completion. Due to the uncertainty you would be foolhardy to exchange before the tenancy has ended, and the buyer is thus unsure if his purchase will proceed or fall through
Ok, It hadn't occurred to me that the tenant might squat. Hence, my request for advice in the first place - as I knew it was likely there was much I didn't know or hadn't considered.
Who mentioned squatting? I shall try to remain restrained..... I suggest that as a LL you look futher into the law of property, so far as it affects you as a landlord, before attempting a legal process like eviction....
A tenancy does not end when the S21 Notice expires after 2 months. A S21 Notice simply advises the tenant that the LL may then seek to end the tenancy (via the courts which is the only way a LL can unilaterally end a tenancy). Or he may not.
It would be lovely to live in an ideal world, but I don't. I can't afford to cover two mortgages, council tax (no discounts for second homes any more where I live), utilities (even if it's standing charges only) etc - it's as simple as that. At best, I might be able to scrape enough together to cover both for a couple of months but what if the flat doesn't sell? That said, I would prefer the flat to sell quickly and for reasons, including come of the ones you point out above, that may not be likely if the flat is occupied. As I say, between a rock and a hard place.
The risk with the other is that you run out of money paying both mortgages.
Some kind of middle ground may be possible with the cooperation of the tenants eg
* serve the S21 (you really have to get that 2 month clock ticking)
* suggest they start looking for somewhere else and agree to be totally flexible on ending the tenancy when they want - ie if/when they find somewhere they don't need to give more than, say, 2 weeks notice.
* offer to reduce the rent by 25%? 50%? in return for agreed viewing arrangements, and a clean & tidy property
If by the end of the 2 months you have not found a buyer, and they have not found a new rental, you do not have to evict. The arrangement can continue (ie reduced rent) - but you can then apply to court immeditely if/when a buyer turns up.0 -
deannatrois wrote: »I am sorry OP but I too thought GM was restrained.
I respect your opinion and would hope you would respect mine. Our experiences of the comment in question are clearly very different but, just because you perceived it differently, that doesn't negate my experience.
Sadly, it is starting to feel a bit like an exclusive (exclusionary) club on here. I don't know what OP me means either. No one has ever explained this acronym (and I have asked before now when it has been used in other threads). If there is a handy glossary on here, that would be helpful to know, but I've never seen one, so a pointer to it would be much appreciated.
Perhaps I have misunderstood but, surely, a point of these forums (not necessarily the only one, I appreciate) is to enable people who don't know much about a subject to ask for information and signposting to helpful resources from others with more knowledge and experience? I had hoped that people would be more understanding, and remember what it's like not to know and not to know what you don't know. My apologies if I'm making points that seem silly or am asking the wrong questions. Instead of criticising, throw me a bone and point me in the right direction. Thank you to G_M who did that in his/her last post.deannatrois wrote: »Remember you are posting on an open forum, and anyone can post.
I am aware. I'm just asking for more respectful handling of another person's lack of knowledge.deannatrois wrote: »Or get a solicitor and let them deal with it on your behest. Will cost though.
Sadly, I have yet to deal with one that didn't come across as unhelpful, unresponsive, inept and/or incompetent. That's just my experience with conveyancing and I do not mean to suggest that there aren't any good and decent solicitors out there.deannatrois wrote: »I have to say that renting out a 'horrible' flat surely, was never going to be anything but 'horrible'????? perhaps the time to sell it was when you moved out.
I do not understand why you 'have' to? I did not ask to be judged, only for information.
Plus, you are making assumptions without foundation.
1) If you re-read the point I made, it says that I had a horrible time there, not that the flat was horrible. Not that it's anyone's concern, other than mine, but several of the reasons for that have nothing to do with the flat itself.
2) I had my reasons for not selling when I moved out, mainly that doing it in the way I did meant I had no chain and could move more quickly, making me a much better prospect as a buyer.deannatrois wrote: »Please note that this advice is ONLY intended to be helpful.
Intentions may be honourable but that doesn't mean the communication won't have a negative impact. In text-only exchanges, the lack of non-verbal cues can distort the meaning so that something other than what was intended is conveyed.
I'll make a deal with you - let's both reflect more. I'll be more open to considering that messages may not have been intended in the way they come across, if others give more consideration to something being perceived in a manner other than intended. I'll re-read and give the benefit of the doubt, if others re-write where there may be doubt.
Thank you to everyone who has provided constructive feedback and suggestions.0 -
Who mentioned squatting? I shall try to remain restrained
Perhaps I've misunderstood but I thought you did. You talked about the possibility of tenants not leaving. If they don't leave, then they are squatting, aren't they?
As for restraint, I would counter with respect (as per my post at 3.46).0
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