Worcester warranty fail + ECO scheme

face-t

I got a new boiler on ECO [[FONT=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial][FONT=&quot]Energy Company Obligation][/FONT][/FONT] scheme. Worcester Greenstar 30i Combination Boiler - then I have decided to register warranty with company which I don't usually do, but browsing their website I have noticed they offer full 5 y warranty on this product instead of 2 years, if one comply with some really basic T&C. So I did online. I have also ticked a box that I want to receive confirmation on paper - by post. Although I have also received confirmation of successful registration on e-mail.

After 2-3 weeks without confirmation I have decided to call them directly.
Lady on the phone [it was December 2016] told me that their
1. my boiler wasn't registered
2. policy doesn't apply on boilers on ECO scheme.
so that means my boiler can have maximum of 2 y warranty.

I have contacted Energy Saving Advice Service 0300 123 1234 as that was my only idea to explain that. I wasn't sure about the e-mail response I got, so I have written response today.

I'm interested what do you think about situation with warranty and separately about my reply.

On their website

https://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/professional/promotions/extended-guarantee-promo
company promises 5 y warranty on Greenstar products without any other condition [apart from registering warranty within specified period]. They did that in 2016 and they renewed this 'promotion' in 2017 [ screen-shot confirms it's been rolled into 2017, T&C PDF confirms it was already live in 2016].

I'm surprised that Private Company is messing with welfare system even it gains a revenue from it. I would imagine that being one of the manufacturers allowed to have a deal with government [trough intermediaries] they would be more careful at limiting it's customers at receiving benefits everyone else is getting.
Also there is me. As I have paid over £1000 toward installation that makes me their customers too. But they use SCHEME as an excuse not to grant usual 'promotion' warranty period for ECO scheme customers. This is typical commercial practice to blame someone else and get away with obligations.
I would expect Bosch Worcester would be blamed and shamed for it and receive much more pressure from government entities.
I looking forward to further elaboration on the subject, as it's wrong to just budge and agree with Bosch Worcester boiler policy on this subject.

Thank you

PS. my previous condensing boiler had the same wattage, but I have never experienced cold water in tap when it was running slowly. So in case someone likes water running slowly for whatever reason you might be in for a surprise.
You will have to have much fatter stream coming out of your tap to keep water hot. History will tell was it worth but for now water usage suffers over energy saving I guess.

CashStrapped

Difficult to say regarding your main question. You are getting the new boiler via a third party and a grant (even though you contributed). You need some consumer law advice. Try your local CAB or email OFGEM who run the scheme.

Regarding your boiler issue.

1) Worcester Bosch boilers are vastly overrated. They get a lot of attention due to heavy marketing and the Bosch brand name. But they are widely regarded by many gas fitters as being awful to work on, over engineered, unreliable boilers.

2) What was your previous boiler? You say it was condensing? Was it a combi? A condensing boiler and a combi are two different things. All modern boilers are condensing. Older boilers could have been combis but not necessarily condensing.

3) Unless your previous boiler was very inefficient and/or very unreliable or non-functional. Boiler replacement is not always cost effective.

4) Anecdotally, the quality of the installs under these grant schemes can be questionable. It can end up being a no frills fit and forget job. Has the boiler been set-up correctly? Was the existing system power flushed (normally a requirement to get a longer warranty). Did you have a combi before? Is the flow and pressure from your mains enough for a combi?

5) Your issue about water use and boiler activation is due to the flow sensor. Combis are most inefficient with constant stop/start use of the hot tap. Water waste is also an issue as it takes a number of seconds for the boiler to fire and heat the water. The sensitivity of the flow sensor could be inherent with the design or and installation issue.

face-t

Yes it is combi boiler and it replaced combi.
The previous one was Ideal boiler that was "heavily" leaking from at least 2 places and one of them (I think) was heat exchanger.
I had a choice of Ideal and Worcester.

I have received by post a card which when filled in can be returned to 'gas authority' and another person will come and check the installation quality eventually.

Ad 4
Installer Company is approved by Bosh Worcester to carry out works (also one of the conditions to have the warranty accepted). As for the technical question not possible for me to know. I only know they spent fair share of time checking "stuff".

Ad 5
This specific boiler has so called Eco mode that doesn't preheat any amount of water (from what I read about it) and claims are that it's not possible to calculate what are the gains of this feature.
I would only think that water is much more precious resource than electricity.

Thanks for tips I'll be contacting OFGEM.
To be honest I would wish to hear that information beforehand from ESA, if you know what I mean.

System

face-t wrote: »

Thanks for tips I'll be contacting OFGEM.
To be honest I would wish to hear that information beforehand from ESA, if you know what I mean.

I am not sure what your unfortunate situation has to do with Ofgem? For what its worth, Ofgem will not investigate individual complaints, You need to follow the provider's complaints process. If you are still not happy, then I suggest that you talk to Trading Standards or the CAB about what action to take next.

CashStrapped

Hengus wrote: »

I am not sure what your unfortunate situation has to do with Ofgem?

According to this, https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/environmental-programmes/eco/about-eco-scheme OFGEM administer the scheme. I would have thought it is worth a call. They may not be able to take direct action againts any one firm, but they may be able to advise.

System

CashStrapped wrote: »

According to this, https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/environmental-programmes/eco/about-eco-scheme OFGEM administer the scheme. I would have thought it is worth a call. They may not be able to take direct action againts any one firm, but they may be able to advise.

I agree that they oversee the scheme but they do not endorse any particular manufacturer. Surely, this is an issue involving the customer, the installer and the manufacturer. Manufacturers are under no obligation to offer extended warranties. If the OP feels that she has been misled, then surely this is one for Trading Standards to opine on?

From the ECO Document:

6. Warranty requirement for boiler measures

All boilers repaired or installed in ECO must be accompanied by a warranty. The requirements that the warranty must meet are dependent on the boiler measure being delivered.

The repair of a boiler must be accompanied by warranty of at least one year.

The replacement of a boiler, irrespective of whether it is qualifying or non-qualifying boiler, must be accompanied by a ‘qualifying warranty’ of at least one year.

Where the supplier is aware that the repair or replacement of the existing boiler is covered by a guarantee or warranty provided under ECO or another government scheme (eg Warm Front), the savings from the measure cannot be claimed under ECO.

teddysmum

We have a WB (now due for its third service) and ave a 5 year warranty.


However, the installers had read a WB poster at their supplier's premises, saying that if a magnatec filter was fitted, the warranty was 7 years. We had a filter fitted, but when I registered the product WB insisted that I could only have 5 years as the offer was for WB accredited companies, only.


The poster had disappeared when the installers went back (so they couldn't examine it for smallprint) and their complaint to WB was fruitless, but the filter was a good thing to have anyway and wasn't expensive.

face-t

Hengus wrote: »

Manufacturers are under no obligation to offer extended warranties.

They are under no obligation from ECO scheme. Unless they offer it independently in T&C, as they did.

I should report back when I know something new.

Boilers
We required a warranty of at least one or two years for any boiler repair under ECO1.
Under ECO2, we require a warranty for at least a year for a boiler repair or replacement.
We do not hold details of which company issued warranties for boiler repairs or replacements.
You may also wish to check if the boiler has a manufacturer’s warranty independent of ECO which may include a separate claims procedure.
Other measures
Guarantees are not required for other measures installed under ECO. However, the product manufacturer or the installer may have provided a policy for the installation and you should refer to this.
Note: Some guarantee providers recommend that consumers contact them at the same time as contacting the installer about a complaint. This could help to speed up the resolution of your complaint.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/environmental-programmes/eco/support-improving-your-home/faqs-domestic-consumers

qsk

teddysmum wrote: »

However, the installers had read a WB poster at their supplier's premises, saying that if a magnatec filter was fitted, the warranty was 7 years. We had a filter fitted, but when I registered the product WB insisted that I could only have 5 years as the offer was for WB accredited companies, only.

That's unfortunately true. Your boiler also needs to be registered by the accredited installer, rather than yourself.

face-t

I honestly thought that customer service in W-B will be much better, but seems like they can't offer even basics. Quite scary when I think they should handle my complaints about braking down boiler, ever.

I've written Worcester an e-mail to eventually rectify problem at source, by shortly asking, why I was denied warranty offered to everyone?

I got the response that looks like from company that do not care about customer retention.

https://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/professional/guarantee-terms-and-conditions

[FONT=&quot]Having checked your records we can see that you had your Worcester Bosch Greenstar 30i boiler was installed under the Eco2 Energy scheme which entitles you to a two year guarantee.[/FONT]

Which doesn't relate to my question at all.
Even I've repeated a question, I don't expect any less blunt answer or any at all.

In this case I'm waiting for responses from
[EMAIL="ECO@ofgem.gov.uk"]ECO@ofgem.gov.uk[/EMAIL]
and
[EMAIL="energy-advice@est.org.uk"]energy-advice@est.org.uk[/EMAIL]

If these two agencies can't come up with anything than I will be contacting Trading Standards with regards to misleading selling practice.


Actually - this is basic T&C I was reading back in December
https://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/professional/guarantee-terms-and-conditions

Below is website screenshot as of 2016
that can be seen on
http://web.archive.org/web/20161020151202/https://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/professional/promotions/extended-guarantee-promo

System

It could be that there is nothing underhand going on here. W-B might be selling their boilers to the Scheme at a discount. The downside being that you do not get a 5 year guarantee. That said, the terms and conditions should have made this clear. FWiW, most boiler manufacturers are now charging for extended warranties.