Sellers rights, customer wants to return item.

Loafman

Hi all, I've just joined the forum as I have a few questions about a sale I made.

I am a sole trader, and I supply and repair PC's for the domestic and small business market.

Last week I had a call from a customer wanting a second hand PC. He was in rather a hurry as his current machine (a laptop) had let him down. Luckily, I had a used desktop base unit in stock, and he was happy to move to a desktop PC. I had a brand new keyboard and mouse in stock too, although I had to source a second user monitor (a 30 mile round trip). I installed the relevant operating system on the machine and took it round to his house for him the next day.

I set it all up for him so that he could see it all working, and he seemed happy with it, although he had never used a mouse before, just a laptop touchpad, so he was having a bit of trouble with that. Long story short, he was happy to buy it, and paid me cash for it there and then.

Earlier today I had a call from him saying can I go and collect it and refund him as he couldn't get used to the mouse. He said he had ordered a new laptop and it was arriving tomorrow. I told him I would call him back tomorrow to talk about it as I was currently a bit busy.

Now, here's the point I am a little stuck on.

I value my customers, so I am happy to take the machine back (although I don't know if I am required to by law). But I will now of course have to secure erase the hard drive and setup the operating system and other software again. Also, the keyboard and mouse will no longer be brand new (not that they are very expensive). Am I within my rights to charge a maintenance/restocking fee and or a collection charge or similar for this, bearing in mind the customer saw and tried the unit in his own home prior to purchasing it? I don't believe it falls under distance selling rules, am I right?

I have a 10 mile round trip and it will take maybe 90 mins of my time to sort this, so I am considering making a charge for the time and expense involved. Would this be legal?

Many thanks in advance.

hollydays

In your listing for it, you simply said you accepted returns?
What did you say about who pays for returns?
Did you charge him for the delivery?
You are going to have to get tougher , as time is money.

Loafman

Hi, thanks for the quick reply.

I might have got this in the wrong part of the forum, but I couldn't find a more suitable category.

It wasn't an online sale, the customer phoned me, and I took it round to the customers house myself to show them it. They then said it was fine, and that they would buy it and paid me for it.

I will have to collect it from them as they don't drive, but the big inconvenience to me is the fact that he has used it, so now I need to securely erase the hard drive and reinstall the operating system and other software on it. Which is between 60 - 90 minutes of my time.

As I took it to him for a demo before he actually agreed to pay for it I'm guessing it's not classed as a distance sale. I am happy to accept the return as I value my customers, but I will need to cover my losses.

At no point were returns mentioned, although my returns policy is available on request (and on my website).

To be honest I've never encountered this situation, which is why I am checking out what his (and my) rights are in this. I feel it is reasonable to charge for my time in this matter since the goods are fully functional and the customer is returning because he has changed his mind. But I don't know what the legal side is under these particular circumstances.

A friend of mine feels I am under no obligation to accept the return, which may well be the case, although I would be happy to accept it if my time is payed for.

warehouse

Loafman wrote: »

A friend of mine feels I am under no obligation to accept the return, which may well be the case, although I would be happy to accept it if my time is payed for.

You've just answered your question. Charge him for the hours you've spent on him including all travel, charge for the time you'll need to spend to make the PC like new again, and charge for any depreciation in value of mouse and keyboard. Then add some on top for the bl**dy cheek.

Is he really a customer you want back?

RFW

warehouse wrote: »

You've just answered your question. Charge him for the hours you've spent on him including all travel, charge for the time you'll need to spend to make the PC like new again, and charge for any depreciation in value of mouse and keyboard. Then add some on top for the bl**dy cheek.

Is he really a customer you want back?

That might be the case, it really depends on the terms it was sold.

I do think it would also be considered as a distance sale as it was a telephone purchase and the seller delivered it. If so then the buyer has 14 days to return it. The return would be at the buyer's expense. As far as I know there's very little else you can get back.

Also if you start pushing any costs the buyer could then claim that the PC is faulty and legally the seller would have to refund and collect.

It's often a matter of weighing the options and the outcome in a worst case.

Loafman

Hi guys, thanks for the replies.

It was sold on the basis that I would drop it over to view, no other terms were asked about. There was no obligation to purchase it. If the customer had said at the time of demonstration that it wasn't suitable then I would have taken it away with me. Although he accepted the PC and was happy to pay me for it.

In fairness, no terms were questioned or discussed as such. I just don't want to be unfair to my customer or have unfairness dished out on me.

The bottom line from my point of view is that I have been asked to collect and refund the purchase price for a PC that I demonstrated and sold in good faith, but the customer is not able to get along with due to his inability to use it.

I understand that some people cannot adapt to new technology, which is why I'm more than happy to accommodate this issue. The thing is, if I take it back, I will be left out of pocket by the customers ignorance, effectively.

I want to keep my customers happy, as this is my livelihood, but I don't want to be seen as a soft touch.. damn this is a tough call.. this situation is bizarre, in the fact that I haven't had one like it before.

ballisticbrian

Loafman wrote: »

The thing is, if I take it back, I will be left out of pocket by the customers ignorance, effectively.

It sounds like you are grappling with the line between a sold as seen private sale and a business distance sale. You are going to take a hit on it and that has to be factored in when you price up your PCs and delivery rates. The only thing I can think of you can do now is either just collect it, refund and move on or politely ask if they mind paying your call out charge to collect and explain everything else you've done so far has been free of charge. Just a thought.

soolin

ballisticbrian wrote: »

It sounds like you are grappling with the line between a sold as seen private sale and a business distance sale. You are going to take a hit on it and that has to be factored in when you price up your PCs and delivery rates. The only thing I can think of you can do now is either just collect it, refund and move on or politely ask if they mind paying your call out charge to collect and explain everything else you've done so far has been free of charge. Just a thought.

I'd add to that as well.

As a business you need to protect yourself with terms and conditions that customers have full access to and are made known to them, you may need to check the legislation to find out what form that notification needs to take. Without any notification to a buyer about terms they hold the upper hand and you are unfortunately rather stuck.

Do you have a local Chamber of Commerce or business group of any description where you could perhaps talk to other small traders and perhaps see how they protect their legal rights?

maisie_cat

How annoying !
I think if my understanding is correct that this was a bespoke build just for him you are not obligated to accept a return. Do you have terms and conditions on an ordinary website or as an attachment to emails?
It does depend on whether you can offload the pc as it is. I would certainly argue that there is a cost involved and he is not entitled to a normal change of mind return as it is a bespoke build. As a gesture of goodwill you could take it back.
I build bespoke furniture and I've accepted a return a couple of times despite being out of pocket. I had a barrister order a gigantic table and it wouldn't fit in the room, I deducted £50 for the delivery costs and reused the wood.

RFW

maisie_cat wrote: »

How annoying !
I think if my understanding is correct that this was a bespoke build just for him you are not obligated to accept a return. Do you have terms and conditions on an ordinary website or as an attachment to emails?
It does depend on whether you can offload the pc as it is. I would certainly argue that there is a cost involved and he is not entitled to a normal change of mind return as it is a bespoke build. As a gesture of goodwill you could take it back.
I build bespoke furniture and I've accepted a return a couple of times despite being out of pocket. I had a barrister order a gigantic table and it wouldn't fit in the room, I deducted £50 for the delivery costs and reused the wood.

There's a big difference between a made to measure table and sticking a mouse in a computer. I don't think it can claim to be bespoke or not to be a distance sale. As far as I can make out the Consumer Contracts Regulations (replacement for Distance Sales Act) specifies on-site sales (buyer comes to premises, buys item and leaves) and off-site sales. This would definitely be an off site sale. As the seller hasn't specified any terms then the buyer has all the benefits of the law.

It really would be simpler to go get the computer and give a full refund. Getting into any possible legal wranglings by knocking money off could be counter productive. This buyer may be a pain but he may also have friends who aren't. He can either tell them of the nice company he dealt with or one that shafted him for the sake of a tenner.

I'm probably seen as a soft touch on here as a seller but it does come from experience. My worst times as a seller have been standing ground with a bad customer, it's stressful and usually pointless. Put it in your mind, or even business plan, to have £x set aside for shrinkage, annoyances, etc. I think mine is around £20/week, I don't think I get to 4 weeks in a year.

RFW

Some more information here
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-contracts-regulations