Understanding PCP

Car_54

andrewf75 wrote: »

If you look at it from a purely capitalist viewpoint then yes

But looking at the bigger picture, we are "consuming" far more cars than we really need and this is not only bad for the planet but with real incomes falling and housing costs increasing and a massive pensions and healthcare crisis looming as we all live longer, is it sustainable that people on low incomes can afford to run new cars? I would suggest not.

Quite right. Let them take the bus. Come back Marie Antoinette, all is forgiven.

motorguy

Car_54 wrote: »

Quite right. Let them take the bus. Come back Marie Antoinette, all is forgiven.

Indeed. We need to protect poor people from themselves.

Bring back Work Houses too, i say!

andrewf75

motorguy wrote: »

Indeed. We need to protect poor people from themselves.

well, when people are driving around in new cars instead of paying into pensions... yes! It sounds over-dramatic, but that's because you haven't thought about it - when you do, the problems become obvious.

motorguy

andrewf75 wrote: »

well, when people are driving around in new cars instead of paying into pensions... yes! It sounds over-dramatic, but that's because you haven't thought about it - when you do, the problems become obvious.

And how would you legislate that?

My niece when she turned 19 and got her first job, bought a got a brand new corsa on a PCP deal. Would you stop her doing that?

And if you did, on what basis?

motorguy

andrewf75 wrote: »

well, when people are driving around in new cars instead of paying into pensions... yes!

And how do you know that they are? Are you just assuming because it helps you justify your view?

andrewf75 wrote: »

It sounds over-dramatic, but that's because you haven't thought about it - when you do, the problems become obvious.

I have thought about it, i am aware of it, however i dont believe its down to your or i to judge what a minority chose to do. And if you go down that route, where do you draw the line?

andrewf75

motorguy wrote: »

And how would you legislate that?

My niece when she turned 19 and got her first job, bought a got a brand new corsa on a PCP deal. Would you stop her doing that?

And if you did, on what basis?

Not suggesting there should be legislation to stop it necessarily. You're taking my comments far too literally.
But my point is, a generation ago, a 19 year old would have probably bought a £500 car or done without a car. PCP and easy credit are ways of artificially boosting sales. Removing these options would simply be a return to how things were before not some kind of radical control over peoples lives!
And its not a minority, the vast majority of cars are bought on PCP or credit. And the vast majority of people (especially the young) are saving far less for retirement than they should.

At some point, this can't continue. The credit will dry up. It is just propping up a system that is inherently unsustainable.
Its probably a bit off topic and more about wider issues, but the widespread use of PCP is a symptom of it IMO.

motorguy

andrewf75 wrote: »

Not suggesting there should be legislation to stop it necessarily. You're taking my comments far too literally.
But my point is, a generation ago, a 19 year old would have probably bought a £500 car or done without a car. PCP and easy credit are ways of artificially boosting sales. Removing these options would simply be a return to how things were before not some kind of radical control over peoples lives!

A car can be - and was for her - an enabler. She lives somewhere relatively speaking quite remote. Getting a new car with the reliability, warranty, controlled outgoings, AA cover, economy (1.3CDTI diesel) allowed her to safely take a job 25 miles from home. A generation ago she'd have remained on the dole as she couldnt get work in her home town. She then got her brother a job there and gives him a lift too.

It is wrong to assume all credit is bad OR that we need to protect people from themselves. Granted, there should be control over borrowing, but we cant just decide poor people shouldnt drive new cars.

I'll leave that with a quote - "Nothing needs reforming as other people's habits" - Mark Twain.

andrewf75 wrote: »

At some point, this can't continue. The credit will dry up. It is just propping up a system that is inherently unsustainable.
Its probably a bit off topic and more about wider issues, but the widespread use of PCP is a symptom of it IMO.

The credit hasnt dried up and is showing no signs of drying up. And if it does people will resort to the restrictions and limitations of buying an older car.

Likewise, i think the younger generation coming through arent as keen to drive a new car - or a car in general in fact. Quite a growing number of people in cities just use Uber or whatever app or public transport to get about. A car for many is no longer a necessity. If that trend continues to grow then your problem starts to go away naturally.

motorguy

andrewf75 wrote: »

At some point, this can't continue. The credit will dry up. It is just propping up a system that is inherently unsustainable.
Its probably a bit off topic and more about wider issues, but the widespread use of PCP is a symptom of it IMO.

I dont see why it cant continue - those who need / want a brand new car PCP or lease them, bringing quality used cars on to the market down the line. Most of these second tier sales are via a straight loan or cash purchase.

I dont think there are too many out there who persistently lease / PCP from cradle to the grave as it were. i know we pick whats best for us at any given time. We've used PCP deals in the past but 9 out of 10 of our past purchases have now been with cash. Our requirements changed, and thus so did our buying habits.

This notion that people start leasing PCPing at 18 and remain so until they retire i think is a broad brush that doesnt really reflect peoples buying habits over their lifetime.

Herzlos

BeenThroughItAll wrote: »

Indeed. I'd be much more inclined to polish a car I was intending to hand back after several years, in order to minimise the likelihood of ending up paying a fortune for minor paintwork repairs.

Exactly, I'd be far more precious over a leased/PCP'd car than my own, because I can live with the occasional scuff but I'd loathe having to pay the lease company for the damages.

Nasqueron

andrewf75 wrote: »

At some point, this can't continue. The credit will dry up. It is just propping up a system that is inherently unsustainable.
Its probably a bit off topic and more about wider issues, but the widespread use of PCP is a symptom of it IMO.

I can't see the credit drying up tbh, it's not like a loan to fund a wedding, a car is a real tangible thing, if you stop paying they just come and take it off you and re-sell it while chasing you for the debt