Both Parents removed to a care home.

kgldsun

Many thanks for the link. I will telephone on Monday.
Yes I have LPA. My Parents are too far gone with dementia to make any changes now.

kgldsun

Would a DOL'S (Deprevation of Liberty) be the same as sectioning do you know please?
My uncle has now had a DOL put upon him, is still in hospital, as four care homes up to now have refused, as they will be unable to meet his needs of challenging behaviour.
The continuing health care decision is contradictory in places to that of the DOL'S.
I just feel led to believe they just want his money and are ignoring, however possible, his needs.
I am currently having the help of a local MP.

elsien

Mojisola wrote: »

I have no experience of this but should your parents be paying for care if they are under a DOL order?

DoLs is about whether or not they have the capacity to decide where they live, and to ensure that if they don't then any restrictions placed on them are legal. Funding doesn't come into it, if a best interests decisions was made and is imputable to the state. Self funders can be subject to a Dols.

elsien

kgldsun wrote: »

Would a DOL'S (Deprevation of Liberty) be the same as sectioning do you know please?
My uncle has now had a DOL put upon him, is still in hospital, as four care homes up to now have refused, as they will be unable to meet his needs of challenging behaviour.
The continuing health care decision is contradictory in places to that of the DOL'S.
I just feel led to believe they just want his money and are ignoring, however possible, his needs.
I am currently having the help of a local MP.

No it isn't. Dols is used where people don't meet the criteria for sectioning, are not safe to return home as things stand, but lack capacity around their care and support needs. It is a way to keep them legally in hospital against their will if they are not able to agree to stay as a voluntary patient otherwise the ward could not prevent them from leaving. He can challenge the dols if he wishes. But it is not the same as a CHC assessment. The dols is to ensure that the levels of restriction placed on him are the least restrictive necessary to keep him safe. The CHC assessment is to ensure his needs will be met - they have two different purposes. The CHC assessment is about nursing needs. The dols would apply to anyone who lacks capacity, regardless of physical health or behavioural challenges.

kgldsun

Thank you for the clarification. I am a little clearer.
He knows nothing. His family, day, names etc and wanders around. He is very aggressive, lashing out, and urinates wherever he pleases. Also refusing to take medication.
I see this as him needing some kind of nursing care, and not as the Social worker deems, general residential care. Especially in view of the fact four residential homes have refused to accept him. He is in hospital as one took him to A&E and refused his readmittance.
Obviously the money does matter, but I get the impression from Social Services that is all they care about, keeping to their 'budget'. As I quoted previously, the SS assessment is lesser needs to that of the DOL'S. I guess in this instance I should appeal.

elsien

You may have a case for challenging the DST with regards to the behaviour. Residential homes have a lower staffing level than nursing homes, so will turn down people who need more support. Some people do fall down the gap between residential staffing levels and nursing need. I'm not overly familiar with CHC funding, but behaviour is part of it. You really need to look at the checklists and argue your case.
What sometimes happens is that someone who is medically fit for discharge can be sent to an interim/discharge to assess bed in a nursing home for up to six weeks to allow for further assessments to take place - this is if he's in a general hospital not a mental health unit. That may also be a route to ask about.

AnotherJoe

KGL I think you'd get better assistance on a specialist forum where many more people than here have been through this same sort of stressful experience and be able to advise based on first hand knowledge of what works and what doesn't (I agree you should appeal and people on those forums will be able to aid in how to do that).

Good luck.

elsien

Also to add, when it comes to assessing nursing needs, the social worker isn't acting in isolation - nurses from CHC will also be involved. Dad should also have representation within that process as either from family or an advocate who should be informed and involved at every stage. Read all the domains very carefully, ask how the decision was reached, and argue his case. Good luck.
http://caretobedifferent.co.uk/nhs-continuing-healthcare-checklist-assessment/

badmemory

Always check any information a social worker gives you. When it comes to financial questions they seem to have a problem with the truth.

I was told by a care home manager that anyone that needed to be in a care home should qualify for the highest rate attendance allowance.

Keep_pedalling

badmemory wrote: »

Always check any information a social worker gives you. When it comes to financial questions they seem to have a problem with the truth.

I was told by a care home manager that anyone that needed to be in a care home should qualify for the highest rate attendance allowance.

The care manager is wrong, only self funders would qualify for AA. Most social workers would actually encouragge their clients to go for AA as it actually reduces the pressure on LA budgets.