POPLA decision rejected

riverking

nosferatu1001 wrote: »

You need to respond to the LBA
Not an appeal, so dont look at appeals. Youre far past that.

There is hopefully something in the NEWBIES thread - and knowing C-M i bet there is! - around poor LBA. Since October 1st there is NEW standard they must must must follow, and CEL do not. For example, the new time limit is 30 days, not 14.

Thanks, I can't specifically see anything about responding to a Letter Before Action, is anyone able to repost a link or the text in a reply on this thread. Apologies, I know this defeats the purpose of the sticky thread and FAQs but help would be appreciated.


thanks in advance

waamo

Read the first couple of paragraphs of this (Post 2 in the Newbies thread)

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=64350585&postcount=2

The_Deep

I suspect that the PPC would struggle if they went to court. You say you could not find a place to park so you went elsewhere. I cannot see how they think that a contract existed.

You also say

IE you have to pay if you spend more than 10 minutes in the car park).

If they say this on their signs, then surely it is an unfair term in a consumer contract, if such a contract had been agreed, (and I do not see how one could). Read this

http://www.hendersonchambers.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Consumer-Rights-Act-2015-Unfair-terms-Alerter.pdf


i

beamerguy

riverking wrote: »

Hi all,
Thanks to people who have already responded I have added this into the original thread now.

The parking ticket is now being enforced by Civil Enforcement LTD.
After failing a POPLA appeal about 4-5 months ago (I didn't check in here to get the right advice, my fault) and hearing nothing I have received a "letter before action"

They have said there is 14 days before issueing proceedings through the small claims and civil court.

They want £140.

They have quoted the supreme court judgement ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis.

Is the text used in the link earlier in the thread by Coupon Mad suitable template text to use in this case and does that mean i do nothing until the court claim is issued?

Thanks in advance

Nowadays, a POPLA decision means very little as
they make poor decisions due to assessors not understanding

CEL will proceed to court but in the same breath, they
discontinue cases because they know they will lose.

The letter you received is to scare you into paying
as they know people are scared of going to court.
County court by the way is nothing to be scared of

You must read up on the Beavis, Supreme Court case
to see just how different it is to your case.
Therefore, CEL are scaremongering you by even
quoting this as they cannot reply on that and already
judges have said it is not relevent

As said above, you must reply

1: Deny any debt
2: Request proof of their claim
3: Request a breakdown of the £140

The new procedure means they must comply and if
they don't or ignore you, your right is to inform the court.
As said, CEL do not comply to the new procedure and
they do this at their peril if they wish to break the law

PS: YOU ARE THE KEEPER ONLY in any reply

riverking

beamerguy wrote: »

Nowadays, a POPLA decision means very little as
they make poor decisions due to assessors not understanding

CEL will proceed to court but in the same breath, they
discontinue cases because they know they will lose.

The letter you received is to scare you into paying
as they know people are scared of going to court.
County court by the way is nothing to be scared of

You must read up on the Beavis, Supreme Court case
to see just how different it is to your case.
Therefore, CEL are scaremongering you by even
quoting this as they cannot reply on that and already
judges have said it is not relevent

As said above, you must reply

1: Deny any debt
2: Request proof of their claim
3: Request a breakdown of the £140

The new procedure means they must comply and if
they don't or ignore you, your right is to inform the court.
As said, CEL do not comply to the new procedure and
they do this at their peril if they wish to break the law

PS: YOU ARE THE KEEPER ONLY in any reply

Thanks beamerguy, this is really helpful. I'm assuming in the response outlining points 1,2 and 3 that you set out above I need to supply additional details and some legalese? I couldn't see any previous templates addressing these three which I can adapt to meet my specific case. Is there one you can cut and paste into a reply that I can adapt and then share for comments with the forum?


Thanks for your continued help

Umkomaas

Is their letter headed ‘Letter Before Action’ (or similar}? If so use one of the templates from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2 for responding to a LBA. If not, I’d wait until you receive a compliant LBA.

riverking

Umkomaas wrote: »

Is their letter headed ‘Letter Before Action’ (or similar}? If so use one of the templates from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2 for responding to a LBA. If not, I’d wait until you receive a compliant LBA.

Yes its LBA. I'll use one of these if I can find it (aarrrggh) and post it back here for comments. Thanks again

bluetoffee1878

Have a look at this:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/72358831#Comment_72358831

and this:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/73208118#Comment_73208118

They are both at the top of post #2 in the newbies thread.

Make sure you read them properly and edit accordingly, don't just copy and paste. You are writing as the registered keeper to CEL (not debt collectors or solicitors)

riverking

bluetoffee1878 wrote: »

Have a look at this:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/72358831#Comment_72358831

and this:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/73208118#Comment_73208118

They are both at the top of post #2 in the newbies thread.

Make sure you read them properly and edit accordingly, don't just copy and paste. You are writing as the registered keeper to CEL (not debt collectors or solicitors)

Thanks, these appear to be "letter before claim" examples, I was looking for "letter before action" examples or are these the right ones?

riverking

For avoidance of doubt my letter says, paraphrasing...


LETTER BEFORE ACTION


Details of car/date/site/PCN


OUTSTANDING DEBT £140.00


In accordance with Pre Action Protocol.....blah blah. Please find attached


1. Draft Particulars of Claim and;
2. Summary of supreme court...parking eye v Beavis


Payment within 14 days or issue proceedings etc.


Is the response then along the lines of what I can see people linking to which is below...I just copied the first bit to check I'm looking at the right response? Apologies but it's a bit tricky to see what the correct response is...


In the County Court Business Centre
Between:
Civil Enforcement Limited
V
XXXXXXXXXXX




Claim Number: XXXXXXXX




I, XXXXXXXXXXXXX, deny I am liable to the Claimant for the entirety of the claim for each of the following reasons:

• The Claim Form issued on 11/10/2017 by Civil Enforcement Limited was not correctly filed under The Practice Direction as it was not signed by a legal person but signed by “Civil Enforcement Limited”.
  
  
• This Claimant has not complied with pre-court protocol (as outlined in the new Pre Action Protocol for Debt Claims, 1 October 2017). As an example as to why this prevents a full defence being filed at this time, a parking charge can be for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge. All these are treated differently in law and require a different defence. The wording of any contract will naturally be a key element in this matter, and a copy of the alleged contract has never been provided to the Defendant.
  
  
  
  1. There was no compliant ‘Letter before County Court Claim’, under the Practice Direction.
     
     
  2. This is a speculative serial litigant, issuing a large number of identical 'draft particulars'. The badly mail-merged documents contain very little information.
     
     
  3. The Schedule of information is sparse of detailed information.
     
     
  4. The Claim Form Particulars were extremely sparse and divulged no cause of action nor sufficient detail. The Defendant has no idea what the claim is about - why the charge arose, what the alleged contract was; nothing that could be considered a fair exchange of information.
     The Claim Form Particulars did not contain any evidence of contravention or photographs. These documents, and the ‘Letter before County Court Claim’ should have been produced, pursuant to paragraph 6 of the Practice Direction – Pre Action Conduct. This constitutes a deliberate attempt to thwart any efforts to defend the claim or to “take stock”, pursuant to paragraph 12 of the Practice Direction. Again, this totally contradicts the guidance outlined in the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (2017), the aims of which are:
     
     1. ‘early engagement and communication between the parties, including early exchange of sufficient information about the matter to help clarify whether there are any issues in dispute
     2. enable the parties to resolve the matter without the need to start court proceedings, including agreeing a reasonable repayment plan or considering using an Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) procedure
     3. encourage the parties to act in a reasonable and proportionate manner in all dealings with one another (for example, avoiding running up costs which do not bear a reasonable relationship to the sums in issue) and
     4. support the efficient management of proceedings that cannot be avoided.’
        
        
  5. The Defence therefore asks the Court to strike out the claim as disclosing no cause of action and having no reasonable prospect of success as currently drafted.
  7. etc etc....